PDA

View Full Version : 2008-11-26 WJZTV - Science Vs. Religion


Joseph
November 28th, 2008, 19:23
http://wjz.com/local/circumcision.2.874087.html

Circumcision Debate Pits Science Vs. Religion
Reporting: Sally Thorner

BALTIMORE (WJZ) ― A circumcision debate is pitting science against religion.

It's the same basic procedure whether it's done in the hospital or the home. But as Sally Thorner explains, there is one major difference.

Two babies--both newborn boys--are having very different experiences. Like 70% of males, they are circumcised, but their response is pitting science against religion. What's up for debate is the management of pain during their surgeries.

"The moment that we are waiting for," said Rabbi Moshe Rappaport. "It might be a little uncomfortable, and at the same time, it might be very magical."

In the Jewish religion, a Mohel performs the ritual circumcision, called a bris. Rabbi Rappaport minimizes the baby's pain with a numbing solution and wine for the baby to suck on.

"There's something right when the baby has a natural reaction to a bris and cries for a short time," he said.

While the ritual circumcision typically happens in the home when the baby is eight days old, the medical circumcision happens in a hospital soon after the baby is born.

A baby in the hospital is given Tylenol and sucks on sugar water. The big difference is they receive an injection to numb the entire area.

"It's inconceivable to me that there are even questions about this anymore," said Dr. Myron Yaster.

Dr. Yaster is a pediatric anesthesiologist and an Orthodox Jew. As a physician, Yaster's views on babies and pain trump his religious beliefs.

"Historically, it was long believed that babies or newborns did not feel or remember pain to the same degree that older children and adults do," he said. "We now know that that's completely incorrect."

In a recent study, Canadian researchers found that boys who are circumcised without pain relief are more sensitive to pain later in life.

"The parents are the consumer here. Do they want their child to experience the pain or not? There are techniques that are available, very easy to do, very simple that will eliminate the pain," Dr. Yaster said.

"Pain is okay," Rabbi Rappaport said. "It's a ritual, a covenant, a connection."

It's religion vs. science and a debate over pain management that doesn't end here.

"Everybody looks at pain as being bad," Rabbi Rappaport said. "Pain demonstrates a connection to your well-being."

"You have to separate belief from fact," Dr. Yaster said. "There is belief that my children need to be circumcised but there's also fact: I don't have to do it painfully."

Methods even differ from doctor to doctor. Not every procedure includes a shot to block the pain. Some believe the pain from the shot is as bad as the circumcision itself, so if you decide to circumcise your son, you should ask the doctor or the Mohel how he or she plans to control your baby's pain.
(© MMVIII, CBS Broadcasting Inc. All Rights Reserved.)

DPX1
November 28th, 2008, 19:52
oh my GOD.

Who gives a shit if it HURTS or not? How about their right to bodily integrity? How about the damage done? How about the sexual function lost forever? What about that science?

People are so retarded. :eek:

Excuse me while I down a 40 and set myself on fire. I can no longer share a planet with these morons.

Matzi
November 28th, 2008, 21:39
http://wjz.com/local/circumcision.2.874087.html

Circumcision Debate Pits Science Vs. Religion

Like 70% of males, they are circumcised,

"There's something right when the baby has a natural reaction to a bris and cries for a short time," he said.

"It's inconceivable to me that there are even questions about this anymore," said Dr. Myron Yaster.

"The parents are the consumer here.

"Pain is okay," Rabbi Rappaport said. "It's a ritual, a covenant, a connection."

"Everybody looks at pain as being bad," Rabbi Rappaport said.

"You have to separate belief from fact," Dr. Yaster said. "There is belief that my children need to be circumcised but there's also fact: I don't have to do it painfully."



Maybe 70% in the US, but only about 25% in the world. Biased "fact".

How is removing something we are born with natural?

Me too. Why do parents have to wonder whether or not to have a stranger cut up their new "pride and joy's" penis?

Consumers? Great, they are comparing the removal of a functional body part to a DVD.

Pain is okay when it is accepted knowingly.

Everybody is a big word there rabbi. And you are wrong. Some people enjoy pain sometimes including myself. Broaden your view.

There is also the fact that you don't HAVE to or should even cut off parts of his penis at all.

finman
November 29th, 2008, 13:23
So how many adults would volunteer for an operation using only Tylenol (paracetamol in the UK)? After a major operation I spent a day on this drug alone as I had to prove to myself I could stay in control despite the pain, turning away anything stronger (yes I know I am nuts, my wife told me so, but I think it stemmed from feelings about my circ.). It does not even begin to touch severe pain. When a nurse finally gave me a shot of morphine I loved her from that moment on for the rest of my life!

I read baby boys are rarely given sufficient anaesthetic as it is considered dangerous at that age. Nerve blocks too have their problems. Strange how adult men being circumcised demand anaesthesia...

Regardless of this, the procedure is unnecessary, damaging and wrong.