Circumcision Loss and Gain

[typhonblue]

My husband is circumcised and recently has started restoring.

At first we were both helpless and horrified when we first learned exactly what he had lost. Restoration seemed pointless since much of the erogenous tissue he has lost cannot be restored and because I didn't realize how much circumcision impacted _my_ experience of sex.

Then I came across an article on female sexual dysfunction and it's connection with circumcision. Looking into it I read the online parts of 'Sex as Nature Intended It'. I realized that the sex I'd been having all my sexual life was not normal. (I agree with much of what the author had to say except I do not agree that women are the primary victims of circumcision. In fact I think that statement is akin to saying the spouse of a rape victim is the primary victim of rape because s/he has to deal with a conflicted, guarded sexual partner. Right. Although I do agree society won't deal with the issue until it recognizes how it negatively impacts women--which is it's own rant about the stupidities of society in and of itself.)

Sex, for me, was a race between pleasure and pain. Insertion was painful, the strokes following insertion were painful. There was a brief moment or two of pleasure before the burning and stinging began and I had to make my husband stop. All the while we were using lube by the bucketful. I remember wondering a few years ago why sex wasn't even as pleasurable as a massage or a back scratch. And I'm a woman who has a fairly high sex drive and finds her husband very attractive. Looking back now I can't believe I thought this was normal--an UK friend I told about this recently also expressed disbelief that I thought this was normal. But what can you expect in a prudish society whose only solution to intercourse related problems is to bleat 'clitoral orgasms are all you should want' and point you to a goddamn vibrator; or a viagra proscription if you're a man. (The solution is always a product, of course.)

After I realized I was not alone and that the likely culprit was my husband's very tight circumcision--we had a new focus for restoration.*

When he started, I didn't expect results this quickly! Within two days, he had enough slack skin to completely transform sex. Penetration is still a little painful, but it's gone within the first stroke instead of persisting. And after that, no pain and, after an initial application, no lube! In the absence of pain, I've noticed subtleties of pleasure I never noticed before. His stroke is deliciously smooth and has a new textural quality; the outstroke creates a vacuum that continues to stimulate my cervix. Instead of feeling like I'm being abraded inside with a lead pipe, I feel like I'm connecting to another part of my partner. Other things have become apparent as well; I've started to notice that the rhythm he enjoys is distinctly different from the rhythm I enjoy--and that the occasional really deep stroke he uses is painful.(Before it was one more pain among a lot of different pains. Now it's a single pain among pleasure, much more noticeable.) I imagine these issues will resolve themselves as he gains sensitivity; when the head of his penis is as sensitive as my cervix, I imagine he'll be doubling over in pain from those deep thrusts as well.

The extra slack and his extra sensitivity have also made handjobs and blowjobs a lot more fun. Not only that but we were considering viagra because he was having trouble getting and maintaining an erection. Another issue that seems to have disappeared. I've also noticed I've begun to perceive him differently; he seems more masculine, more manly. Interesting how our sexual responses seem to have such an effect on our psyches and our perception of ourselves as male or female.

I read a while back Taoist posting something on how a restored foreskin might be better then the original. Although there was a lot of disagreement, I do think there is one thing a restoring man can experience that an intact(or even a circ'd but not restoring man) can't. And that is the gradual rediscovery of natural sexuality. And, if you're with a partner, the evolution of your shared sexuality--the process of 'clicking' back together like a key and lock(or a key and key, as the case may be). That experience, in itself, is very erotic. And a source of wisdom. I don't think anyone will ever know quite how intelligent and efficient nature is--and how utterly arrogant humans are--as a restored man; a circ'd male will never acknowledge it and an intact man will take it for granted, necessarily.

(Not that this is an argument for circumcision. Or anything other then my own thoughts.)

*I'm the type of person who likes to see my partner experiencing pleasure even more then I want to experience it myself. The fact that he has lost sexual sensation--and can never get it back--is going to haunt me for the rest of my life.

[DPX1]

Thanks for offering your perspective, it's quite encouraging that things have improved so much so rapidly.

Strangely enough, what got me restoring wasn't discovering the pleasure I'd lost (I just wrote it off as something I'd never get to experience and decided "never will I do this to any son of mine"). I started restoring when I realized that my ability to please my partners was literally crippled. I didn't want to go through life as an amputee. Pretty heavy (and emasculating) thoughts for a 17 year old.

Of course, the great irony of it all is that when I told my [ex] girlfriend about how wrong circumcision is, and how it's affected and enraged me she says to me "Oh my God, stop moaning about something you'll never have. Get over it! I wasn't born blonde but you don't see me complaining about the state of my hair! It's an important Jewish rite blahblahblah". When I countered with how I was restoring, she told me I needed help. She always seemed so smart too, funny how popular opinion can turn decent people into, well, small-minded bitches.

But I've felt a lot better ever since I killed her and cut her up into little bits and threw them into the bay AHAHAHA! :D
(Kidding. She's very much alive, much to my chagrin.)

Anyway, I digress.:rolleyes:

Best of luck to you and your husband. I encourage you to keep us posted on your progress as a couple so we can get the woman's perspective on restoration.

[finman]

Thank you so much Typhonblue for your post. It is so important that we hear the woman's side to counter any suggestion that restoring men are 'off their trolleys', and that others realise the damage that has been done to us, and indirectly to our partners.

[ctrclckws]

Ditto

Knowing that some women have noticed the difference, keeps me going in the hope that my wife will eventually too.

[finman]

So is your wife going to join the long queue (line) of women in the US and UK wanting circumcision for themselves? Strange while strongly advocating circumcision for men they go strangely silent when it is suggested for women.

My wife as a midwife in the UK had a patient who had been circumcised. She had to be cut so that she could deliver her baby without a C section. Her genitals had been mutilated so that normal enlargement to allow the baby to pass was impossible.

If she ever needed it, I think that would be enough to persuade my wife of the lunacy of this sort of practice.

[typhonblue]

Thanks for offering your perspective, it's quite encouraging that things have improved so much so rapidly.

I was surprised it improved so rapidly. I was expecting to have to wait weeks if not months. But the change was almost over-night.

She always seemed so smart too, funny how popular opinion can turn decent people into, well, small-minded bitches.

At the risk of starting an argument, I've noticed that women can be very ignorant and resistant to men's perspectives. They can be the worst sort of chauvanistic troglodytes. 'Oook, ook, me no like!' I don't understand how women can expect men to sympathize with their ever increasing list of complaints while not even giving a moment's thought to men's lack of bodily integrity--I mean there isn't much worse you can do to a person then what's done to men. Without killing them that is.

Good for you for getting rid of the girlfriend and keeping up the restoring, btw. :D

[typhonblue]

Ditto

Knowing that some women have noticed the difference, keeps me going in the hope that my wife will eventually too.

In noticing these sorts of changes, I imagine it helps being aware of your body. Does she do any sort of meditation or yoga?

Although I can't imagine not noticing, really! The change was so drastic. But every person is different, I'm sure.

[Billybobbed]

Keep posting. It's good to hear encouragement from the gentler gender of the species. We have several women here that keep cheering us on.

[typhonblue]

Keep posting. It's good to hear encouragement from the gentler gender of the species. We have several women here that keep cheering us on.

Hm. Considering it was women who started the ball rolling on circumcision 150 years ago(agreeing to let doctors start doing this to their sons routinely), I don't think we've earned the moniker 'gentler sex'. At least not by our actions.

But I will keep posting.

[Billybobbed]

Hm. Considering it was women who started the ball rolling on circumcision 150 years ago(agreeing to let doctors start doing this to their sons routinely), I don't think we've earned the moniker 'gentler sex'. At least not by our actions.

But I will keep posting.

Those same women lived in a closet and harnessed their poor bodies in corsets. You girls are more educated now.

[typhonblue]

Those same women lived in a closet and harnessed their poor bodies in corsets. You girls are more educated now.

There are no excuses for what was done--if someone in power makes these kinds of mistakes and refuses to take responsibility for them, that power should rightly be taken away from them. If they were flawed by ignorance and arrogance, it was their responsibility to correct both for the protection of their children.

They failed. And we are failing.

[Tally]

There are no excuses for what was done--if someone in power makes these kinds of mistakes and refuses to take responsibility for them, that power should rightly be taken away from them. If they were flawed by ignorance and arrogance, it was their responsibility to correct both for the protection of their children.

They failed. And we are failing.
Well said! :D

[Billybobbed]

There are no excuses for what was done--if someone in power makes these kinds of mistakes and refuses to take responsibility for them, that power should rightly be taken away from them. If they were flawed by ignorance and arrogance, it was their responsibility to correct both for the protection of their children.

They failed. And we are failing.

Back then who had the balls to dispute ignorant arrogance of John Kellog, Benjamin Spook, or the inventor of the gomco? Even the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce recommended circumsion. You are right that their power should have been taken away from them. I hope they all rot in hell. I feel that we are not failing though. Circumsions rates are falling. It is people like you, me, and the rest of us restorers who are educating expectant parents. It's also people like Ron Low who are helping us get back some of what was taken away from us and spreading the word about the evils of circumsion on this forum.

[Tally]

There are no excuses for what was done--if someone in power makes these kinds of mistakes and refuses to take responsibility for them, that power should rightly be taken away from them. If they were flawed by ignorance and arrogance, it was their responsibility to correct both for the protection of their children.

They failed. And we are failing.
Back then who had the balls to dispute ignorant arrogance of John Kellog, Benjamin Spook, or the inventor of the gomco? Even the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce recommended circumsion. You are right that their power should have been taken away from them. I hope they all rot in hell. I feel that we are not failing though. Circumsions rates are falling. It is people like you, me, and the rest of us restorers who are educating expectant parents.
That statement is still true today, just as it was 20 or 30 years ago. Just browse any parenting forum and you can see the ignorance and arrogance of today's parents. It is amazingly widespread. Some parents vehemently advocate that it is THEIR choice to mutilate their child.

[Billybobbed]

That statement is still true today, just as it was 20 or 30 years ago. Just browse any parenting forum and you can see the ignorance and arrogance of today's parents. It is amazingly widespread. Some parents vehemently advocate that it is THEIR choice to mutilate their child.

Want to drive a stake in the hearts of the pro-circ doctors? Do what I do. When I visit a woman in the maternity section of the hosptial I go to the men's can, then I take a sharpie permanent laundry marker and write on the inside of the $hithouse door, Want More Information About Circumsion? Then I write down the web sites for NoCirc and NoHarm. Nobody can sit there taking a dump without reading it.

[typhonblue]

Back then who had the balls to dispute ignorant arrogance of John Kellog, Benjamin Spook, or the inventor of the gomco?

They(parents and society in general) managed to successfully dispute the use of female cliterectomy as a therapy for various illnesses--throwing one of those 'mighty' doctors right on his ass for suggesting it.

Society protected girls but not boys? And circumcision was recommended as therapy not for any mental or physical illness but as therapy for _being born male_? Is being male an illness or a correctable disease?

Where do attitudes like these come from?

[finman]

We have seen several links to articles about circumcision, and while some responses to the articles are anti-circ, there are others protesting loudly that is should either be encouraged or in some cases, claims for it to be compulsory!!! This attitude is still very present.
For example, the article:
http://www.theage.com.au/news/catherine-deveny/its-child-abuse-and-its-time-it-was-cut-out/2007/10/23/1192941062383.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1
With relies at:
http://blogs.theage.com.au/yoursay/archives/2007/10/snipping_away.html

[finman]

Hm. Considering it was women who started the ball rolling on circumcision 150 years ago(agreeing to let doctors start doing this to their sons routinely), I don't think we've earned the moniker 'gentler sex'. At least not by our actions.

When you read comments by mothers who had either witnessed the procedure or seen the state of the baby returned to them it either makes you angry against the doctors or makes you cry in sympathy with the mother. The link is:

http://www.circumcision.org/mothers.htm

Mothers Who Observed Circumcision (Printed out; it is well worth the time to read it in full)

The typical hospital circumcision is done out of view of the mother in a separate room. However, a few are observed by parents, and many Jewish ritual circumcisions are done in the homes of the parents and observed by family and friends. Although some parents may report that this is a positive experience, this is not always the case. Women are more likely than men to report distress from hearing an infant crying. (1) Regarding circumcision, the father is more likely to deny his son’s pain because it could remind him of his own circumcision feelings. Therefore, witnessing the circumcision and the infant’s response can have a particularly shocking effect on the mother. Only recently have some parents been willing to describe their agonizingly painful experiences at their son’s circumcision. Though further research is needed to tell us how common these responses are, the fact that they exist at all is reason for concern and reflection.

Some mothers have written about their experiences with circumcision during the previous year. “It was as close to hell as I ever want to get!” one wrote. Another related this memory:
My tiny son and I sobbed our hearts out. . . . After everything I’d worked for, carrying and nurturing Joseph in the womb, having him at home against no small odds, keeping him by my side constantly since birth, nursing him whenever he needed closeness and nourishment—the circumcision was a horrible violation of all I felt we shared. I cried for days afterward. (2)
Melissa Morrison was having a difficult time seven months after she had watched the (nonritual) circumcision of her son:
I’m finding myself obsessing more and more about it. It’s absolutely horrible. I didn’t know how horrific it was going to be. It was the most gruesome thing I have ever seen in my life. I told the doctor as soon as he was done, if I had a gun I would have killed him. I swear I would be in jail today if I did have a gun. (3)
Two other mothers have reported to the Circumcision Resource Center that watching their son’s circumcision was “the worst day of my life.” Another mother noted that she still felt pain recalling the experience about a year later. She wrote to her son:
I have never heard such screams. . . . Will I ever know what scars this brings to your soul? . . . What is that new look I see in your eyes? I can see pain, a certain sadness, and a loss of trust. (4)

Other mothers clearly remember their son’s circumcision after many years. Miriam Pollack reported fifteen years after the event, “The screams of my baby remain embedded in my bones and haunt my mind.” She added later, “His cry sounded like he was being butchered. I lost my milk.” (5)
Nancy Wainer Cohen recalled her feelings connected with the circumcision of her son, who is now twenty-two:
I heard him cry during the time they were circumcising him. The thing that is most disturbing to me is that I can still hear his cry. . . . It was an assault on him, and on some level it was an assault on me. . . . I will go to my grave hearing that horrible wail, and feeling somewhat responsible, feeling that it was my lack of awareness, my lack of consciousness. I did the best I could, and it wasn’t good enough. (6)

Elizabeth Pickard-Ginsburg vividly remembered her son’s circumcision and its effect on her:
Jesse was shrieking and I had tears streaming down my face. . . . He was screaming and there was no doubt in his scream that he wanted mother, or a mothering figure to come and protect him from this pain!! . . . Jesse screamed so loud that all of a sudden there was no sound! I’ve never heard anything like it!! He was screaming and it went up and then there was no sound and his mouth was just open and his face was full of pain!! I remember something happened inside me . . . the intensity of it was like blowing a fuse! It was too much. We knew something was over. I don’t feel that it ever really healed. . . . I don’t think I can recover from it. It’s a scar. I’ve put a lot of energy into trying to recover. I did some crying and we did some therapy. There’s still a lot of feeling that’s blocked off. It was too intense. . . . We had this beautiful baby boy and seven beautiful days and this beautiful rhythm starting, and it was like something had been shattered!! . . . When he was first born there was a tie with my young one, my newborn. And when the circumcision happened, in order to allow it I had cut off the bond. I had to cut off my natural instincts, and in doing so I cut off a lot of feelings towards Jesse. I cut it off to repress the pain and to repress the natural instinct to stop the circumcision. (7) (italics added)

After several years, Pickard-Ginsburg says she can still feel “an element of detachment” toward her son. Her account is particularly revealing. That she “cut off” feelings toward her son by observing his circumcision suggests that her son may have responded similarly toward her by experiencing his circumcision. Furthermore, because she was willing to feel and communicate the intensity of her pain, we have a clue to why more mothers who observe their son’s circumcision do not report such pain. Denial and repression may keep this extreme pain out of their awareness.

Observing their son’s circumcision has left some parents with a deep feeling of regret. The following quotes are typical:
I am so sorry I was so ignorant about circumcision. Had I witnessed a circumcision first, I never would have consented to having my son circumcised. (8)

Always in the back of my mind I’ve thought, “I wish he hadn’t been cut.” I have apologized to him numerous times. (9)

If I had ever known, I wouldn’t have done this in a million years. (10)

I felt as if I might pass out at the sight of my son lying there, unable to move or defend himself. His screams tore at my heart as his foreskin was heartlessly torn from his penis. Too late to turn back, I knew that this was a terrible mistake and that it was something that no one, especially newborn babies, should ever have to endure. A wave of shock coursed through me—my body feeling nauseatingly sick with guilt and shame. All I could think of was holding and consoling my child, but his pain felt inconsolable—his body rigid with fear and anger—his eyes filled with tears of betrayal. (11)

Some mothers who did not witness the circumcision have since regretted allowing it:
The nurse came to take the baby for the circumcision. I have relived that moment over and over. If I could turn back the hands of time, that would be the one moment I would go back to and say, “I don’t think it’s a good idea. I need another day to think about it” and just hold on to him because I wasn’t sure. I think if I had held on to him it might have turned out differently. I just shouldn’t have let him go when I was so ambivalent. After they took him I went into the shower, and I cried. (12)
When they brought him back to me, I could see that he had been crying and had a glassy, wild look in his eyes. I think it was terror. I didn’t know what had been done to him, but I could tell whatever it was, it hurt. I’ll never forget that look. They probably shattered every bit of trust he had. I’m very angry about it. I would never have done that to my own son. No mother would take a knife to her child. When I looked at his penis, I was again instantly sorry that I had allowed it to be done. (13)

[typhonblue]

When you read comments by mothers who had either witnessed the procedure or seen the state of the baby returned to them it either makes you angry against the doctors or makes you cry in sympathy with the mother.

To be honest, I don't feel much sympathy. I feel more along the lines of 'just desserts'. If someone is so flippant as to put their child through a surgery that they know nothing about... it's a dereliction of duty. It is their dereliction to regret to their dying day, as they should. (And, since I believe in karma, they get to live the pain they inflict after their deaths.)

Regardless of the pressures placed on mothers, they are the last line of defense and the first in line for responsibility when it comes to the care of children.

Also, how is it that 150 years ago society mothers could be convinced to put their son's genitals on the chopping block when similar arguments for girls caused outrage?

[finman]

There is a culture of following what doctors suggest, following hospital procedures and going along with accepted practice. There were reports of nurses just trying to take the baby from the mother for circumcision to be done, and even a report of a hospital not wanting to discharge any baby boys without circumcision!!! After the birth of a baby, the parents are vulnerable psychologically and may be pressured with false warnings and stories of later problems if they do not go along with circumcision. Also there may be great and continual pressure from a father or family.

Mothers who resist these dreadful, evil pressures and protect their babies from this mutilation should be praised, but very often are continually criticised for putting their baby boy at risk, the exact opposite of the truth.

So I can understand why some mothers, like mine, fail their baby boys but they and the boy must then pay a dreadful price.

[ctrclckws]

Replying to post number 5

No finman, my wife does not want to join that particular long line.

If our two year daughter had been a boy, she probably would have circ'ed him without thinking about it.

Before the ultrasound's that indicated girl, we had this discussion, and she accepted my opinion on the matter. He would not have been cut. The amazing thing to me is that she is Hindu, a non-cutting culture.

Her reasoning, all the standard non-religious ones.

[typhonblue]

Mothers who resist these dreadful, evil pressures and protect their babies from this mutilation should be praised, but very often are continually criticised for putting their baby boy at risk, the exact opposite of the truth.

If mothers can't resist these 'evil' pressures then so much for a protective maternal instinct. I suppose a mother's love really isn't stronger then anything? It's actually sort of a shallow, flippant thing?

You cannot take responsibility away from mothers. If you try to, you are believing a fiction. Even the infant knows his mother is responsible, that's why the bonding between mother-son is severed. Telling women they are not responsible does them no favors--they will be held responsible karmicly and psychologically by their sons.

And, one day, they may be held responsible by society. I can only hope.

Imagine if we reversed this. We lived in a society in which fathers put their infant daughters under the knife. Would we be so quick to absolve them of responsibility? Even if the mothers and doctors were pressuring them?

So I can understand why some mothers, like mine, fail their baby boys but they and the boy must then pay a dreadful price.

The terrible price mothers pay who fail their children is eternal and justified regret. Until society sees fit to make them pay a further price.

Nothing anyone says can or should take that away. That is the scar they will bear for the rest of their lives.

[DPX1]

I honestly believe the m others would think differently if they witnessed the procedure (i.e. the screams and the blood) for themselves.

I don't mean to sound misogynistic, but, simply put, mothers are nuts when it comes to protecting their newborns. It's basic mammalian instinct. Every story I've read from women who've seen their infant sons being circumcised talks of their visceral reaction, their horror at seeing a stranger so obviously*hurting their baby.

Hell, even my own mother, despite never having apologized, told me to my face (when I was 10 years old and first found out that somebody had cut my body before I was big enough to fight back) that she refused to witness my procedure having already accompanied my older brother to his 7 years earlier, and that she regretted it enough that she wouldn't let it happen should she have any future sons. Talk about indelicacy :eek:.

She also said that if it were up to her she never would have done it, but that it was my dad who made the call and actively pushed for it.

If we could only work with this notion, and get every mother's "I will kill you before you hurt my child" instinct in play, I bet circ rates would drop precipitously (or maybe divorce rates would skyrocket because they'd be disagreeing with the fathers :rolleyes:).

I think that's the only way we can win. Politicians won't attack the issue, religious people certainly won't budge, doctors will continue to "tolerate" existing practices that they no longer recommend, but parents hold so much power. If they stopped putting up with these procedures, we'd stop seeing them for generations, since legions of intact men certainly wonn't wake up and say "gee I'd like this amputated". Those are the people we need to send our message to, because they are the least informed yet the most powerful.

And after all, nobody fights harder than a mother fights for her child.

[finman]

I believe mothers genuinely believe they are doing the best for their sons, or leave the decision to their husbands who 'know better, being a male issue'.

Doctors can be very persuasive in making parents choose this for their child as it may be shown as the normal thing to do, and to refuse is to make a maverick, dangerous decision risking your baby's health.

I know this is nonsense, and that they are in fact endangering the baby's life as well as permanently damaging him psychologically and physically.

[Tally]

If we could only work with this notion, and get every mother's "I will kill you before you hurt my child" instinct in play, I bet circ rates would drop precipitously (or maybe divorce rates would skyrocket because they'd be disagreeing with the fathers :rolleyes:).
I think DPX1 is on to something. We need to excite mothers emotionally to protect their baby boys.

I've noticed on the forums where parents discuss circumcision, it is usually the father who has the "macho" attitude that it is the parent's decision to circumcise and says "dammit, I'll circumcise my kid if I want to!"

Let's empower the mothers of the world to protect their babies!

[typhonblue]

If we could only work with this notion, and get every mother's "I will kill you before you hurt my child" instinct in play, I bet circ rates would drop precipitously (or maybe divorce rates would skyrocket because they'd be disagreeing with the fathers :rolleyes:).

[...]

And after all, nobody fights harder than a mother fights for her child.

I bet those same fathers who are encouraging the circumcision of their sons would kill anyone who advocated the same for their daughters.

Something is seriously wrong when a father can't bond with his son to the point where his protective paternal instinct kicks in and sends him into a blind rage whenever his son is threatened.

If humans were like this 50,000 years ago we would have died out.

[DPX1]

Something is seriously wrong when a father can't bond with his son to the point where his protective paternal instinct kicks in and sends him into a blind rage whenever his son is threatened.


Well that's the thing. Abuse begets abuse. If they weren't amputees themselves, they wouldn't be pushing it onto their progeny. That's what's so truly sick about the practice.

[estefan]

I don't know about the whole "mother" thing, I worked with a girl who was a single mother who had her son circumcised because, quote, "I'd way rather give head to a guy who was circumcised."

yes, really.

[kindofblue]

Hey guys
I don't know how familiar you are with Mothering magazine. They are very touchy feely. They have a whole area on their website against circumcision. If you want to see how the ship is turning in some regards, read these heartbreaking stories.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410


Now the parents regret it - how will they explain it to their sons. Gee son, we learned later that we shouldn't have done it - but you will have to live your whole life without your foreskin. Sorry. What a messy world this is.

[DPX1]

Now the parents regret it - how will they explain it to their sons. Gee son, we learned later that we shouldn't have done it - but you will have to live your whole life without your foreskin. Sorry. What a messy world this is.

I always wonder about that. So many anti-circ advocates got started after the regret they felt for doing it to their sons. How do they reconcile that when they come home from work everyday?

I wonder if any restorers here had their sons circumcised before they saw the light? What do you do then? Say, "hey son, you might wanna get restorin'!" ?

That's the worst part about this whole thing. We can argue back and forth, but it only takes a little to change someone's life forever.

[greg_b]

I always wonder about that. So many anti-circ advocates got started after the regret they felt for doing it to their sons. How do they reconcile that when they come home from work everyday?

I wonder if any restorers here had their sons circumcised before they saw the light? What do you do then? Say, "hey son, you might wanna get restorin'!" ?

That's the worst part about this whole thing. We can argue back and forth, but it only takes a little to change someone's life forever.

I made sure both my sons remained intact. However, my parents had me circ'd, but my younger brothers were left intact. I do not remember them saying much about it other than the doctors/medical community had stopped pushing it by the time my brothers were born.

This did not make me angry with my parents, quite the contrary. It is clear to me they were given biased information, they were following their doctors recommendations, and they were in fact looking out for my and my brothers' best interests as best they could with the information given to them. There was no information about restoration at that time.

Having gone through the experience of my first son's birth, having the doctor pressure me to RIC even though I had told him more than once leading up to the birth I did not want to do that, having him pace back and forth arguing with me immediately adter i cut the umbilical cord, I have a much stronger feeling that parents are strongly influenced by some doctors to RIC their sons.

So I have a strong feeling that many parents have done it in error, based on biased information given by the medical profession. Not all, certainly, but I am not one to paint all parents with the same brush.

Regards

[estefan]

Having gone through the experience of my first son's birth, having the doctor pressure me to RIC even though I had told him more than once leading up to the birth I did not want to do that, having him pace back and forth arguing with me immediately adter i cut the umbilical cord, I have a much stronger feeling that parents are strongly influenced by some doctors to RIC their sons.

greg, how long ago was your son born?

[greg_b]

greg, how long ago was your son born?

18 years ago.

Cheers!

[thebigmanfred]

I made sure both my sons remained intact. However, my parents had me circ'd, but my younger brothers were left intact. I do not remember them saying much about it other than the doctors/medical community had stopped pushing it by the time my brothers were born.

This did not make me angry with my parents, quite the contrary. It is clear to me they were given biased information, they were following their doctors recommendations, and they were in fact looking out for my and my brothers' best interests as best they could with the information given to them. There was no information about restoration at that time.

Having gone through the experience of my first son's birth, having the doctor pressure me to RIC even though I had told him more than once leading up to the birth I did not want to do that, having him pace back and forth arguing with me immediately adter i cut the umbilical cord, I have a much stronger feeling that parents are strongly influenced by some doctors to RIC their sons.

So I have a strong feeling that many parents have done it in error, based on biased information given by the medical profession. Not all, certainly, but I am not one to paint all parents with the same brush.

Regards



I'm the youngest in my family and have not been circumcised. I know my older brother has, I'm not sure about my oldest. My mom told me that I wasn't in part circumcised because she was confused about whether to do it at the time. For her, there was conflicting medical information so she didn't do it. I think the fact that my dad isn't circumcised also played a part. She has asked me on more than one occasion whether I wanted to be circumcised, to which the answer was always no.


It's strange, I never thought about what I would lose if I was circumcised, I always thought about what if something went wrong and the pain after surgery. This was always the justification I gave her. I know realize how much I really would have lost. I think you're right that people are given biased information about circumcision by doctors. Not only that, but because the circumcision is the norm, those that aren't circumcised aren't taught the benefits of not being circumcised in school. I mean how often is a circumcised penis shown in an anatomy book or sex ed class?

[finman]

Not only that, but because the circumcision is the norm, those that aren't circumcised are taught the benefits of it in school. I mean how often is a circumcised penis shown in an anatomy book or sex ed class?
This is no longer so in the United Kingdom, except in a few religious groups.

Maybe that is why when we fly to certain airports in the US, the crew say,
"We are about to land at XXX airport in the United States. Please ensure your seatbelt is fastened and your seat is returned to the upright position. The weather is good. Please set your watches back 25 years!!!:p

[Just joking, the United States is one of my favourite places to be]

kindofblue, that is a brilliant link. Everyone should read it, especially parents being asked about circumcision.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410

[thebigmanfred]

This is no longer so in the United Kingdom, except in a few religious groups.

Maybe that is why when we fly to certain airports in the US, the crew say,
"We are about to land at XXX airport in the United States. Please ensure your seatbelt is fastened and your seat is returned to the upright position. The weather is good. Please set your watches back 25 years!!!:p

[Just joking, the United States is one of my favourite places to be]


I'm glad to hear that isn't so in the U.K. In many places in the U.S. sex ed just sucks.

On another point though, I've heard Denmark is considering a ban on circumcision. Some of the major political parties there are trying to get legislation to do it. If only the politicians would do something about here in the U.S. (and everywhere else this is conducted).

[finman]

Thebigmanfred, I am also circumcised while my younger brother is not.

However I have now pretty much restored, but have lived far too many years as a circumcised man.:(

This is an interesting link:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html

[thebigmanfred]

Thebigmanfred, I am also circumcised while my younger brother is not.

However I have now pretty much restored, but have lived far too many years as a circumcised man.:(

This is an interesting link:

http://www.circumstitions.com/Maps.html

I'm glad to hear you're pretty much restored. My older brother likely doesn't know what he's missing. I'm glad my mom didn't do it to me (I don't know if my dad would have cared, he wasn't circumcised himself).

The link you provided is great. I plan on blogging about circumcision at some point and this link will be very useful. Thanks.

[kindofblue]

Maybe that is why when we fly to certain airports in the US, the crew say,
"We are about to land at XXX airport in the United States. Please ensure your seatbelt is fastened and your seat is returned to the upright position. The weather is good. Please set your watches back 25 years!!!:p

[Just joking, the United States is one of my favourite places to be]


Not starting January 20th. We have moved ahead, and change is coming!

kindofblue, that is a brilliant link. Everyone should read it, especially parents being asked about circumcision.


Its heartbreaking really....


http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410

With change coming to Washington, maybe we can get circumcision on the radar. Nationalized health care doesn't pay for unneeded surgeries like this.

[firestarter]

Hey guys
I don't know how familiar you are with Mothering magazine. They are very touchy feely. They have a whole area on their website against circumcision. If you want to see how the ship is turning in some regards, read these heartbreaking stories.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=112410


Now the parents regret it - how will they explain it to their sons. Gee son, we learned later that we shouldn't have done it - but you will have to live your whole life without your foreskin. Sorry. What a messy world this is.

at least if they realise they made the mistake they could suggest how to at least partly remedy it by restoring. Think about how much faster a teen could restore than a grown adult!

[mischa]

DPX1: Woman like your ex-girlfriend really piss me off! Being born brunette is completely different from being circumcised, and you ex sounds incredibly ignorant and self-centered. Seriously, girls are supposed to be nurturing and compassionate, but girls like her give the rest of us girls a bad name.

And I'm meeting women like that all the time. I can't imagine what all the men are going through, and I assume that many men feel numb about the whole issue. I'd imagine it would feel like being robbed on a very deep level, considering how important penises are to men's self images. I think women need to recognize how unfair this is because we have intact genitals and do not want people messing with them. But most women I talk to act like it's no big deal. They say that female circumcision is genital mutilation, but male circumcision is simply removing excess skin. I'm sorry, but I think women have at least as much, if not more "excess skin" than men. I'm trying to convince my sister-in-law not to circumcise her son (due in March), but she is disinterested in what I have to say and compares circumcision to baptism. She's making me so angry because of her lack of compassion, ignorance, and unwillingness to learn the truth about this!

Sorry, I'm ranting and probably just making you all feel worse. I recently wrote a letter that I've emailed to all of my friends, trying to inform them about circumcision. It contains nothing you all do not already know, but I'm trying to spread the word to future mothers. I feel very hurt for my husband and all the other circumcised men, and I knew I needed to take action to at least try to spread the word and help prevent future abuse. I think it helps that I'm a woman who wrote this letter because when a man discusses his mistreatment, people tend to mock him or tell him to stop complaining. I think women really need to step up and admit that our society is being extremely unfair. If any of you are interested, I can email the letter to you so you can send it to others.

Also, I kind of want my husband to start restoring because I think it could help us. I had not considered it until one man I emailed replied and told me that my husband may feel better if he restores. However, if I talk about it too much, he gets really mad. He's very angry about being circumcised as a baby, but when I talked to him about restoring and mentioned that women tend to prefer uncircumcised sex, he got upset and felt inadequate. Then I felt really bad.

I think restoring would be a good idea partly because he also has a lot of hair on his shaft which sometimes irritates me, and restoration may help that. He doesn't agree about that though; he said he thought that theory was untrue. I have never had sex with a man who was not circumcised, so I don't know what it's like, but I always associated some pain with sex. It's not terrible, and I've gotten used to it, but I'm starting to wonder what sex would be like without the pain. My husband is worried about looking strange during the restoration process because he thinks that, although he wishes he were never circumcised in the first place, he looks pretty good right now.

Do you have any advice for convincing him to try restoring without hurting his feelings? I had never heard of this until very recently, and I find it very interesting. I don't know. Maybe I want him to do this partly out of plain old curiosity on my part, and I should leave him alone about this.

Also (I know I'm asking a lot of questions), what do you recommend for starting? He has no movable skin when erect. What method do you think works the best at the beginning? Do you have any recommendations for skeptical starters?

[estefan]

Do you have any advice for convincing him to try restoring without hurting his feelings? I had never heard of this until very recently, and I find it very interesting. I don't know. Maybe I want him to do this partly out of plain old curiosity on my part, and I should leave him alone about this.

Also (I know I'm asking a lot of questions), what do you recommend for starting? He has no movable skin when erect. What method do you think works the best at the beginning? Do you have any recommendations for skeptical starters?
mischa, why not ask your husband if he wants to try restoring sort of "half-way"? the point I'm at is that I've grown enough extra skin so that the inner skin is bunched up against the head. it looks completely circumcised (actually, it looks better than a tight circ; the scar is hidden in the bunched-up skin) and if the original poster in this topic is right, growing even that little bit of extra skin will provide a relief from some of the pain you've been experiencing. she had excruciating pain that was alleviated after two days of restoring, so that extra skin should help with your relatively minor pain. and after all, freeing up a little loose slack on the shaft isn't going to hurt anything.

[admin]

I kind of want my husband to start restoring because I think it could help us. I had not considered it until one man I emailed replied and told me that my husband may feel better if he restores. However, if I talk about it too much, he gets really mad. He's very angry about being circumcised as a baby, but when I talked to him about restoring and mentioned that women tend to prefer uncircumcised sex, he got upset and felt inadequate. Then I felt really bad.
Well, you're right. My wife loves sex a lot more now that I have slinky slack. It's nothing for a guy to feel inadequate about, especially since he can improve it. Being cut isn't something he chose, but taking control to fix it is in his power.
I think restoring would be a good idea partly because he also has a lot of hair on his shaft which sometimes irritates me, and restoration may help that. He doesn't agree about that though; he said he thought that theory was untrue. ... I always associated some pain with sex. It's not terrible, and I've gotten used to it, but I'm starting to wonder what sex would be like without the pain.
I just asked my wife about that. She said before I restored sex was always good, but it could get annoying if it took me forever to finish, and the hair on my shaft was definitely an irritant.

If your partner restores, then less hair-bearing shaft skin will be dawn into you because the hairless mucosal skin near the glans will expand to enrobe more of his erect shaft.
My husband is worried about looking strange during the restoration process because he thinks that, although he wishes he were never circumcised in the first place, he looks pretty good right now.
He will look a little odd while wearing a device, but he doesn't need to worry about ever looking "halfway restored" during the process. I consider myself restored but I can look cut any time I wish (never) by just rolling my skin off the glans onto the shaft. The skin is so elastic that unless someone was really staring, trying to find something to criticize, they would just assume I was a cut guy with a little bit looser skin than the average cut guy.
Do you have any advice for convincing him to try restoring without hurting his feelings? I had never heard of this until very recently, and I find it very interesting. I don't know. Maybe I want him to do this partly out of plain old curiosity on my part, and I should leave him alone about this.
Well, convincing him to try will only work if he wants to, but there is a VERY easy way to start that could melt away his resistance. Without stretching or re-growing anything, he can start just wearing his existing skin rolled forward over the glans 24/7 with a retainer: http://TLCTugger.com/YSC-instructions.htm

He'll notice gradual but distinct changes to his suppleness and sensitivity within a few weeks. Take before pictures and measure things like how quickly you can give him an orgasm orally, so you'll know things are changing.
Also (I know I'm asking a lot of questions), what do you recommend for starting? He has no movable skin when erect. What method do you think works the best at the beginning? Do you have any recommendations for skeptical starters?
If he can force skin over the glans while he is flaccid (nudging the glans back as needed) then he can use a tapeless method. If not, he'll need to be talked into taping (with T-tapes or something like The Canister Method). The easiest would be taping up every night after dinner and removing the tape in the shower the next morning. In a few months he can probably go tapeless.

If he's got the time, he can help himself with manual stretching techniques every available minute, like on the toilet. And you can work together on these before bed. But I'm a believer in constant gentle tension producing healthier expanded tissue than periodic high-stress exercises.

Good Luck,
-Ron

[Tally]

My husband is worried about looking strange during the restoration process because he thinks that, although he wishes he were never circumcised in the first place, he looks pretty good right now.
Looking strange to whom? No one sees my penis except my wife. When I am at the locker room at the gym, I don't notice any guys staring at me. :D He can restore without anyone knowing about it. If he does not like how it looks, he can stop at any time.
Do you have any advice for convincing him to try restoring without hurting his feelings? I had never heard of this until very recently, and I find it very interesting. I don't know. Maybe I want him to do this partly out of plain old curiosity on my part, and I should leave him alone about this.
What convinced me to restore was this site: http://www.sexasnatureintendedit.com/10F/1hook_scrapes.html. After going through that site, I immediately began researching restoring methods. I was manual tugging that day. :p
Also (I know I'm asking a lot of questions), what do you recommend for starting? He has no movable skin when erect. What method do you think works the best at the beginning? Do you have any recommendations for skeptical starters?
The easiest way to start when someone is as tight as your husband is with manual tugging. Method 2 at this site: http://pages.suddenlink.net/manual_methods/methods2and3.html is very easy to do, and you can even help him with it. :D A few minutes a day will make a difference and may convince him that it is not difficult. There is a member here, That Woman Guest (http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/forum/member.php?u=47), who manual tugs her husband.

[Swingshiftworker]

Ditto

Knowing that some women have noticed the difference, keeps me going in the hope that my wife will eventually too.

My GF noticed and likes the difference too. :)

[4Foreskin]

mischa,
Glad to see another concerned female on this site and one who is firmly against circumcision. :)
I am sure you are aware that talking about any penis problems to your guy will be very sensitive. It sounds like you have already done allot of reading on the issue. If not, I recommend reading up on all the pros on having a foreskin or a restored foreskin on various sites for both the male and female.
Use this information to talk to your spouse and it may help if you offer to help in the process. Encouragement and understanding goes a long way in this. Make sure he understands that what he has is great. You only want to experiment with him to see what it feels like. I would love it if my wife would participate in the process more.
I talked with my wife about foreskin restoration before I started over a year ago. She read allot of stuff and supported my starting. She wanted to make sure I didn't hurt myself. She has commented twice that she likes the way it feels in that year. That is a big motivation and ego boost for me.
You need to understand that foreskin restoration is normally a very long process. I was cut pretty tight (CI 1.5-2) and I am only a CI3.5 after 15 months.
Hope this helps.
4Foreskin

[mischa]

Thanks everyone. My husband agreed to start this because I told him to at least try it and see if he notices a difference. I'm really excited about my husband doing this after seeing the www.sexasnatureintended.com website. I thought he'd be restoring for him, but now I understand why it would benefit both of us :) Also, I feel better after reading that because I used to get so frustrated about needing lube. I told him that, and he said there was no reason to be upset, but honestly, I felt a little inadequate that I couldn't supply enough lubrication naturally. Now I understand that sex isn't supposed to be that way (constantly drying out), and I'm perfectly normal.

Admin - can the TLC tugger restore any skin, or is it simply a retainer?

I looked at some of the devices with weights and things, and they look kinda scary!

Are there any devices he can simply wear while doing normal activities that can restore him, or is taping the best for applying steady tension? I would imagine that steady tension would work better than manual tugging because manual tugging involves more of a time commitment. Also, I worry about him pulling too hard out of impatience.

Thanks so much for all your advice!

[Tally]

Are there any devices he can simply wear while doing normal activities that can restore him, or is taping the best for applying steady tension? I would imagine that steady tension would work better than manual tugging because manual tugging involves more of a time commitment. Also, I worry about him pulling too hard out of impatience.
How to tug is a personal preference thing. I find manual tugging much more convenient than wearing a device. For others, it is the opposite. He needs to find out what is most convenient for him. He can also use more than one method. If he uses a device, it never hurts to also manual tug. The secret is to find a way to tug that integrates into his lifestyle and becomes a habit.

There are three basic tugging methods:

1. Manual tugging by taking things in your own hands. (my preference) :D

2 Tugging by applying outside tension to the skin tube. This includes T-taping and devices like the TLC tugger. The outside tension is an elastic strap. This method also includes weights like the PUD or Ron's new stuff.

3. Bidirectional devices like the TLC-X, which apply tension to the skin by pushing on the glans.

[Billybobbed]

Thanks everyone. My husband agreed to start this because I told him to at least try it and see if he notices a difference. I'm really excited about my husband doing this after seeing the www.sexasnatureintended.com website. I thought he'd be restoring for him, but now I understand why it would benefit both of us :) Also, I feel better after reading that because I used to get so frustrated about needing lube. I told him that, and he said there was no reason to be upset, but honestly, I felt a little inadequate that I couldn't supply enough lubrication naturally. Now I understand that sex isn't supposed to be that way (constantly drying out), and I'm perfectly normal.

Admin - can the TLC tugger restore any skin, or is it simply a retainer?

I looked at some of the devices with weights and things, and they look kinda scary!

Are there any devices he can simply wear while doing normal activities that can restore him, or is taping the best for applying steady tension? I would imagine that steady tension would work better than manual tugging because manual tugging involves more of a time commitment. Also, I worry about him pulling too hard out of impatience.

Thanks so much for all your advice!

mischa you need to get in contact with That Woman Guest for ideas. She has been helping her husband with his restoration with good success. If he is tight cut your husband will be better off starting with manual tugging or taping, rather than a device. I didn't get my TLC-X until I had enough skin to pull half way up my glans when erect. This was as per Ron's advice and I'm glad that I took his advice. My TLC-X stays on so well now that I don't even bother using the saftey string.

[typhonblue]

I thought I'd chime in. :)

Even though my husband has extra slack skin now, he does not look uncircumcised. No one would know that he's been tugging. It's going to take a long time for him to re-grow his foreskin and I imagine that, at any point he thinks the 'looks' issue out weighs the benefits he's getting in terms of his pleasure and mine, he can stop. (Although I doubt he will. And I think once your husband starts he won't want to stop either.)

I'll reiterate that it did make a huge difference even after two days, but he was very tightly cut and he's rather big too (really bad combination, he needs that extra skin!) Recently he admitted to me that he also felt pain and abrasion during sex.

Two other things I've noticed is that the hair on his shaft is receding and his testicles are hanging lower. Which helps as well because before they were too tight and 'got in the way' leading to even _more_ pain for him. (*sigh*)

Now that he has that extra slack skin, the pain is gone and I don't need lube as much. In fact sometimes I can go the whole time without. Also, his sensitivity has increased a lot; he actually seems to enjoy it when I touch him. I've also noticed I'm more relaxed during sex inside, before I was tightening up, probably in anticipation of pain. And sex has significantly improved. Actually, I'd say I actually _have_ a sex life now, before I didn't, because now I know the difference, I realize what we were having before wasn't sex, it was a painful, cruel joke played on us by western medicine.

My husband uses a metal tugger he got from Australia. When he first put it on it was very difficult to keep on so maybe that's not the route to go--he still can't keep it on for very long. But he wanted it because he's the kind of guy who really likes industrial looking stuff and he wanted something that looked like it meant business.

[greg_b]

Thanks for chiming in Typhonblue, it is great to get a woman's perspective and to hear how the restoration is helping.

A very cruel joke indeed.

Regards

[Billybobbed]

I didn't realize how many girls/women are actually on our side and are really vocal in defending us. Thanks girls.:)

[Fboi]

I thought I'd chime in. :)

Even though my husband has extra slack skin now, he does not look uncircumcised. No one would know that he's been tugging. It's going to take a long time for him to re-grow his foreskin and I imagine that, at any point he thinks the 'looks' issue out weighs the benefits he's getting in terms of his pleasure and mine, he can stop. (Although I doubt he will. And I think once your husband starts he won't want to stop either.)

I'll reiterate that it did make a huge difference even after two days, but he was very tightly cut and he's rather big too (really bad combination, he needs that extra skin!) Recently he admitted to me that he also felt pain and abrasion during sex.

Two other things I've noticed is that the hair on his shaft is receding and his testicles are hanging lower. Which helps as well because before they were too tight and 'got in the way' leading to even _more_ pain for him. (*sigh*)

Now that he has that extra slack skin, the pain is gone and I don't need lube as much. In fact sometimes I can go the whole time without. Also, his sensitivity has increased a lot; he actually seems to enjoy it when I touch him. I've also noticed I'm more relaxed during sex inside, before I was tightening up, probably in anticipation of pain. And sex has significantly improved. Actually, I'd say I actually _have_ a sex life now, before I didn't, because now I know the difference, I realize what we were having before wasn't sex, it was a painful, cruel joke played on us by western medicine.

My husband uses a metal tugger he got from Australia. When he first put it on it was very difficult to keep on so maybe that's not the route to go--he still can't keep it on for very long. But he wanted it because he's the kind of guy who really likes industrial looking stuff and he wanted something that looked like it meant business.

That's an awesome story, and one that needs to be told. Thank you for sharing it :)

[photenman]

A comment for typhonblue,

First thanks as others have said for sharing your comments! That's great that your intimate life has improved so much, and encourages us in this forum. Also I commend you for being involved in his efforts.

I had a couple of suggestions since you say the device your husband bought from Australia falls off often so limits his restoration time. I also have it and it is indeed industrial strength. But I found the same problem, I think due to the cone which is a bit slippery. So the suggestion is to try the TLC-X, which is bi-directional too, but the cone is much stickier and stays on really well. Like night and day better. It doesn't look industrial strength but it really does the same job in a much smaller, more discrete and easier to use package. The other suggestion is to get the TLC-X type cone onto the other device but I wouldn't be able to do that myself. (It took me 30 minutes to get the spare cone off of it, despite the directions.) The TLC-X is still my "go to" device for daily use. Hope this helps and all the best.

[photenman]

The question was raised how a woman might persuade her somewhat reluctant man to start restoring. Other than open conversation or reading some good material about it, he could start with a "MySkin Cone" which TLCTugger.com sells for only $8. It stays on well from the get-go and after only a few weeks the head of the penis looks greatly improved (from looking dead to alive) and is more sensitive. Seeing this quick improvement, a man might be motivated to move on to the next step of restoring the foreskin.

As mentioned elsewhere, I found that I could use the TLC-X after only perhaps one week manually tugging. I think it's because it pushes the head of the penis into the skin tube, which frees up some loose skin for the cone to stay attached to. And the TLC-X can be used without a strap if one is easing gradually into the process. Even without the strap, it puts tension on the outside and inside of the foreskin.

Then for TyphonBlue - if still here! - I had suggested using the TLCTugger-type cone on her husband's device from Australia which was slipping off, as happens to me. But I did not know how to do that. So I contacted the manufacturer in Australia who was kind enough to tell me how to do it. He said buy the RC-10 cone from TLCTugger.com (from memory, I hope I got that right; whatever the model, he means a similarly sized cone to the one your husband has). Then heat the one on the device in hot water and roll it off, then heat up the TLC cone, and roll it on. Then it would not slip off.

Personally I prefer the TLC-X as much lighter, easier to use, more comfortable (more "TLC") and more discreet, being maybe 1/5th the length. The other device certainly does the job, but I can't wear it for more than one hour or so, and not at work. It might be best for more advanced restorers.

Well I hope you see this and that it is helpful. But it sounds as if you both were so happy with early results that you must be well on your way now.
Thanks again to mischa and TyphonBlue for your support and insights.

[Dani85]

Hi! I wanted to chime in about mothers who let their sons get cut. I put most of the blame on doctors. My son is intact but only because I did a ton of research. When I asked, my OB told me it was my choice but there may be some benefits and really stressed that not cutting was the minority. When I asked my son's pediatrician, he also said there may be some benefits and stressed it was a personal decision (of my husband's and mine). It wasn't until I told my son's doctor that we were not going to do it that he breathed a sign of relief and told me that our son was lucky b/c it's not necessary and told me the risks. My OB still seemed to disagree with me but then again, he'd be the one that would get paid to do it. Then my son was born. While in labor (women, you know how vulnerable you are then!) I had nurses questioning our choice. Shortly after birth it was discovered that our son had testicular torsion. He had to have surgery. Again, I was questioned why I didn't want him cut. Told that he wouldn't feel it b/c they'd do it during his surgery. When neither my husband nor I were there (I was still in a different hospital from my son), a nursed asked my mom if my son was to be cut! :eek: 3 months later we go for my son's post surgery check-up and THEN the urologist praises us for keeping our son intact. So I believe the biggest problems is the doctors pushing parents toward circumcising and looking at the ones that say no like they have a second head. And the doctors that know better but don't say anything until they know the parents think the same way. We're suppose to be able to trust doctors to tell us all of the facts. We shouldn't have to do the research....I'm not saying it's not our responsibility to research, just saying I can see how a parent can be made to seem like they are doing the right thing.

BTW my son is only 2!

[greg_b]

Hi! I wanted to chime in about mothers who let their sons get cut. I put most of the blame on doctors...

I agree. Of course each case is different and certainly some parents deserve blame, but in my mind, not only are many doctors and nurses being unprofessional in the pressure they put on parents to RIC, but as a whole, the medical profession takes a very passive agressive stance that proveds biased information to parents encouraging them to circumcise their sons.

With out first son, we told the doctor we did not want to RIC. Seemed to be no big issue.
then, at the delivery, right after I cut the unmbilical cord, The doctor layed into me, telling me what a big mistake I was making, how my son would be traumatized by not looking like me (I am 6 ft tall, have a beard, wear glasses, but that didn't seem to be any issue at all) and getting teased in the locker room. I think many other people would have caved in.

Regards

[Kynodesme]

Hi! I wanted to chime in about mothers who let their sons get cut. I put most of the blame on doctors. My son is intact but only because I did a ton of research. When I asked, my OB told me it was my choice but there may be some benefits and really stressed that not cutting was the minority. When I asked my son's pediatrician, he also said there may be some benefits and stressed it was a personal decision (of my husband's and mine). It wasn't until I told my son's doctor that we were not going to do it that he breathed a sign of relief and told me that our son was lucky b/c it's not necessary and told me the risks. My OB still seemed to disagree with me but then again, he'd be the one that would get paid to do it. Then my son was born. While in labor (women, you know how vulnerable you are then!) I had nurses questioning our choice. Shortly after birth it was discovered that our son had testicular torsion. He had to have surgery. Again, I was questioned why I didn't want him cut. Told that he wouldn't feel it b/c they'd do it during his surgery. When neither my husband nor I were there (I was still in a different hospital from my son), a nursed asked my mom if my son was to be cut! :eek: 3 months later we go for my son's post surgery check-up and THEN the urologist praises us for keeping our son intact. So I believe the biggest problems is the doctors pushing parents toward circumcising and looking at the ones that say no like they have a second head. And the doctors that know better but don't say anything until they know the parents think the same way. We're suppose to be able to trust doctors to tell us all of the facts. We shouldn't have to do the research....I'm not saying it's not our responsibility to research, just saying I can see how a parent can be made to seem like they are doing the right thing.

BTW my son is only 2!
You had me scared to death there when you mentioned the nurse asking your mother if your son was to be cut :eek: ! I thought the story was going to sadly end with your son getting cut without your permission. Thank god everything turned out OK.