Another Radical Idea:

[jeff71913]

Skin shares some of the same properties as many types of plastic. If plastic is heated it can usually be permanently stretched. I suppose the molecules in the material probably get farther apart, etc. It seems that lasers are being use for just about everything nowadays and I wonder if there is any way to heat the skin under tension and stretch at the same time, thereby, causing permanent expansion. There are may different types of lasers and this might be possible over the course of several treatments. The natural foreskin is usually thin anyway and if the expanded tissue was thinner that would be acceptable. The idea here would be to use low level laser therapy, or LLLT in order to avoid possible scaring and tissue damage. LLLT has already been cleared by the FDA for hair loss prevention. Although, I'm not really sure if it works in that particular case.

jeffrey

[greg_b]

You are not stretching or expanding the skin like you would plastic. You are creating the conditions that induce faster than normal cell division. This adds new cells, thus making the skin longer.

Too much heat is dangerous to skin. Think of getting a burn. that said, others have reported the beneficial effects of a hot tub or heated wrap just before tugging, especially manual. This probably works by getting the muscles to relax so they are not contracting and fighting against the tension. I have not seen anything that says this will speed up your progress, but I cannot see how it would hurt.

Regards

[finman]

Skin shares some of the same properties as many types of plastic. If plastic is heated it can usually be permanently stretched

This might have worked for Michael Jackson, but not for the rest of us :p

By the way, CO2 lasers can also be used for circumcisions.

http://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/laser.html

[jeff71913]

This might have worked for Michael Jackson, but not for the rest of us :p

By the way, CO2 lasers can also be used for circumcisions.

http://www.circlist.com/instrstechs/laser.html

We must to have water to live, but too much and we drown. The laser in moderation might be helpful. Technicians use laser energy to stimulate hair growth, however, too much and it destroys the follicle. I do think this deserves more study. New technology is always met with skepticism. The best method of restoring the foreskin, etc., will probably be a bit on the radical side and that's ok with me if it works properly.
I don't make a habit of visiting those perverted circumcision sites, but I did observe the pics that you linked to. In the third slide one can easily see the large amount of erogenous tissue (inner foreskin) that this kid lost due to genital mutilation. I think it would be best if these people also removed their testicles, thereby, removing them from the gene pool. Of course, I'm not speaking of the children that they do this to. Child molesters usually do focus on the most innocent and defenseless among us. I suppose the people that do this will have plenty of good memories to toss around while they pleasure themselves.

jeffrey

[finman]

The expressions used on the laser circumcision site:
most aesthetically pleasing results...the prepuce is pulled forward and clamped. A CO2 laser is used to cut the excess foreskin

There is an assumption that the normal penis is unpleasantly deformed and requires surgery to make it 'pleasing' to look at and to remove the 'excess' skin.

It is perfect before the mutilation, and there is no excess, it is required for normal functioning of the penis during sex, while concealing and protecting while flaccid.

[1Taoist]

I don't know anything about this, but comparing plastic to organic tissue is faulty. You obviously know nothing about skin or tissue or mitosis or any other physiological thing. You're just guessing. And you tell yourself that any rejection of your ideas is just another sign of genius being "rejected at first".

Let's leave that sort of complex to those in the field of said technology. You just dreaming up a way to "stretch skin permanently like plastic" is just that...you dreamin.

Maybe low level laser treatment 20 years from now might fulfil this role, but until then, what does it matter? They're not gonna invest in procedures that try to restore what they take away in the first place. That would be calling into question circ in the first place.

[jeff71913]

There is an assumption that the normal penis is unpleasantly deformed and requires surgery to make it 'pleasing' to look at and to remove the 'excess' skin.

It is perfect before the mutilation, and there is no excess, it is required for normal functioning of the penis during sex, while concealing and protecting while flaccid.

Nothing wrong with the penis in its natural state. As a matter of fact, I prefer the natural state, although, I wouldn't base a relationship on that at all.
Anyhoo, I just read an article in some science magazine that indicated that laser light is now helping women that suffer from hair loss.
The problem with a laser is that it might cause the tissue to shrink if the beam, or pulse is too strong. The laser is effective in tightening up the loose skin of the face to some degree. But, this surely wouldn't be the case with LLLT for the scalp. LLLT is somewhat effective in the prevention of androgenetic related hairloss which means that in this case the laser is certainly not tightening, or scaring the scalp. These things would exacerbate the hair loss process. I still think it "might" be worth considering. I suspect that laser energy might be more likely to provide good results if it was used on tissue that is under tension.


jeffrey

[finman]

I really cannot see any use for lasers in restoration. The tightening up of facial skin simply means scarring the tissue, the exact opposite of what we want.

Pinpoint heating of skin is unlikely to produce any useful result unless you plan to circumcise and get into the "I am pleased I was circumcised" argument again.

[jeff71913]

Since laser energy is used to stimulate hair growth we can surmise that it can obviously be used in a way that does not scar the tissue. MPB, male pattern blading, is a form of scarring alopecia. Alopecia meaning hair loss. DHT, Dihydrotestosterone, which is a metabolite of testosterone, is the primary culprit responsible for causing the scarring of the scalp. Obviously, this scarring is not visable as a series of scars, as the entire balding area is involved. In other words, the entire bald area becomes scar type tissue and that is why a mans bald spot often has a slick and shiny appearance, much like a burn scar. The proper laser on the correct power setting can apparently reduce, or prevent this type of scarring. I have read that a proper dose of laser radiation can stimulate the creation of fibroblasts, collagen and other components that make up the skin. Fibroblasts are now in many types of cosmetics and as we all know, they harvest them from the foreskins of non-consenting humans. This isn't capitalism, this is nothing more than aggravated child molestation and theft. And quite frankly, I feel that the victims should be entitled to reparations. But, that's just me.
Nevertheless, such options must be explored if we are to continue to advance in the field of genital restoration. Some things will work and some won't. Unfortunately, there's usually only one way to find out. Sunlight is radioactive, yet, without some sunlight life on earth would cease to exist. This may not be the best analogy, but, it proves that some of the things that are very destructive in excess are beneficial in moderation.

jeffrey

[greg_b]

Sorry, but actually that analogy is not even correct. But your point is good, simply too simplistic. Randomly trying things until we find something that works, hoping that not too much damage is done along the way is not only ineffective but reckless.

Instead there is a much better method. One that relies on experimentation to increase knowledge and find solutions that are plausible. these are then tested to make sure our understanding is correct and that there are no unknown gotcha's. Finally testing is done to make sure the treatments does not have bad side effects and is effective.

Informed experimentation. First you need to learn, then ponder what that knowledge says about your area of interest, then brainstorm solutions.

I would encourage you to keep thinking. But doing some reading too is always beneficial.

cheers!

[jeff71913]

I will readily admit that I am not a physicist and have no desire to become one. You told me about two years ago that you are a biologist, so, I'll take your word for it. Actually, I was told by the doctor that delivered my daughter in 1985 that sunlight was radioactive and that stuck in my mind.
Yes, information is a good thing. So, from where do we get the material? From one of the websites that keep telling us that we have lost 20,000 nerve endings? The study of anatomy would be extremely helpful, but, would it radically affect the overall design of the device. We can place semirigid and inflatable prosthesis' into the penis and usually do so without any significant side FX. And now, penile enlargement is all the rave. Personally, I wouldn't even consider penile enlargement, but, to each his own. I believe that penile enlargement is far more invasive than what I am speaking of.
I can't even find detailed info on circumcision, such as , how are different types of frenula removed. How might the remaining skin be adjusted after, or before the circumcision. I have many questions and no one is talking and the information is not readily available. The hospital where I was born would not even discuss as to whether, or not, they had my birth records. I had some rather unusual scarring on the mucosa and I wanted to know if I had hypospadias, or something. The info just isn't there. I admire the work that the activists are doing. I really do, but, it just isn't for me. We can not change the fact that we were circumcised, but, we could more easily make changes that we feel comfortable with if we had more information.
BTW, it was not until shortly after I graduated high school that I even got an accurate description of circumcision. All the descriptions before that described the foreskin as a tiny flap of skin located on the tip of the penis. How accurate is that?
I don't know if such a device would be placed directly under the skin, or would it be placed under the deep fascia? Or, maybe it would go directly beneath the superficial fascia, or maybe beneath the areolar tissue? See what I mean? There is no way I could possibly know, but, either way, it would not change the overall design of the device to any significant degree. The principle would remain the same.
If we look on the Internet we will find every type of cosmetic surgery you can think of, but, there is no mention of foreskin restoration/reconstruction. I don't think this has anything to do with the cosmetic results of the procedure. I firmly believe other factors are at play. I know Reed and Stubbs offers the procedure. But, only two?

jeffrey

[jeff71913]

Greg, I forgot to mention that if an expansion device of this nature was developed, it would be best to test it on a very high quality dildo. Sorry, but I don't know of another word for it at this time. I have visited some of the adult novelty stores in hopes of finding one, but no luck yet. It would need to be very life-like. If people could see exactly what I am talking about I think a lot of them would be more receptive to the idea. I could probably make a prototype out of a more workable material than titanium.

jeffrey

[finman]

Actually, I was told by the doctor that delivered my daughter in 1985 that sunlight was radioactive and that stuck in my mind

May I suggest that the doctor who delivered your daughter is not the best person to explain physics to you. Whatever is that meaning of that statement in the context of your posting? Laser light is not radioactive. It is also not a miracle machine. It just creates intense heat and light.

[jeff71913]

I'm still not sure that sunlight is not radioactive. It contains cosmic radiation. Alpha and beta particles, gamma radiation, X-rays, etc. The sun is very similar to a gigantic hydrogen bomb that is going 24/7. The sun itself is radioactive. It is a giant fusion reactor. This is not like a laser (light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation.)
No, this has nothing to do with foreskin restoration. But, I'll make any of you a bet. BTW, I have no money now, so I'll have to write you an IOU if I'm wrong, nevertheless, I can develop this device that I speak of and it will work. If it doesn't I'll kiss your ass on main street. And that's a promise.
Although, I still need a life-like dildo to practice with. Not for me! For the device!

jeffrey

[cobra]

The sun does emit radiation, which is absorbed by the ozone layer and does not reach Earth to a dangerous extent. Sunburns and skin cancer are caused by the sun's UV radiation. Without the ozone layer, the Earth would probably be a cinder.

Visible light is just a portion of the electromagnetic radiation spectrum, which goes from radio waves, to visible light, to ultraviolet. This is overly simplified but you get the picture. It is a low level radiation which is comparatively harmless to living tissue.

Ionizing radiation is somewhat different. This is the energy given off by nuclear weapons, radioactive materials, etc. It is much more harmful, and even deadly, to living tissue.

The most energetic frequencies of EM radiation like x-rays and gamma rays are also dangerous.

By it's basic definition, any energy that is emitted from its source and travels outwards in a straight line to be absorbed by another body is radiation. This includes the light from the sun, the heat from a match, the signal from your cell phone, the energy from a nuclear waste dump and even the energy that is generated and radiated by the human body.

[Tormod - IRL]

Circumcision using CO laser looks like the perfect way to remove the glans also.

Wonder if the energy from microwave ovens would help restoration? What setting would you use? Need to drill a hole in the door. Anyone for dick patia?

[finman]

Actually, I was told by the doctor that delivered my daughter in 1985 that sunlight was radioactive and that stuck in my mind

Jeff, why would he say that as in the part of women where he works 'the sun certainly don't shine' :p:p:p Was he trying to say X rays are safe or something?

Although, I still need a life-like dildo to practice with. Not for me! For the device!

Try telling the sales assistant that. Of course we believe you (NOT :p) but he or she may have more difficulty. If you buy one with a foreskin which you need to remove to prove your device, you could try sticking the end in a grass cutting machine (lawn mower) as the effect is similar. Following comments on some earlier posts, you will have to believe in your heart the chewed up, mangled dildo is damaged otherwise it will not be so.

My brother used to work in radar research and there were rooms which had far too high levels of microwave energy to enter. The staff were warned it could affect their fertility. However if you want to microwave your dick that is up to you. I would suggest the 'defrost' setting, particularly if it is a cold day.

[jeff71913]

When my daughter was born it was winter and I had a dark tan. The doctor commented on it.
I think I'll hold off on microwaving my penis. I am just thinking of ways to stretch, or expand skin. Of course, skin is going to exhibit properties that are different from other materials, but, it will have properties that are similar as well. Thus far, we have discussed rolling the skin like one might roll pizza dough. And we have discussed an expansion device that would fit beneath the skin. And we have touched on some form of energy that might bring about expansion of the skin. Some have mentioned that it might thin the skin out too much, but, I doubt that would be a problem. Every foreskin that I have seen has been considerably thinner than the skin of the shaft.
I have yet to put a roller type device together, but, that would be fairly simple. The device that would fit under the skin would be more complicated. It could be made out of a hard, or, machinable type plastic/polymer. I don't know how one would approach the light energy, or, microwave method. Naturally, one wouldn't want to use a form of energy that would cause mutations to DNA. Nevertheless, if you take most any type of material that exhibits properties similar to human skin and heat it, it will stretch. But, I'm certainly not talking about blasting the penis with some kind of death laser. Nothing like that at all. Something like this would have to be approached very cautiously. And several treatments might be required.

jeffrey

[finman]

Anything inserted beneath the skin is a serious matter, as one function of the skin is to prevent infection. Once the skin is breached the risk is there. Also introducing foreign materials into the penis is generally a bad idea.

Microwaving and laser bombardment will not replace removed tissue, also, so where is the discussion going? There is very little opportunity to heat the skin as it expands and grows as the pain will be prohibitive, or there will be damage resulting and there is no benefit. What are the microwaves or laser supposed to do?

[jeff71913]

When I was a kid I had teeth that stuck waaaay out. Which is too bad, cause I was a really cute kid, (at least I thought so.) Anyway, my parents got braces for me. Every month I would have the braces adjusted. It hurt like hell for about 3 days after the adjustment. Recreating the foreskin might have the same effect in some circumstances. BTW, I also had an incisor that would not drop, therefore, I had to go to a doctor in Memphis and have it removed from the roof of my mouth before I got braces. Due to this I really wouldn't be a very good vampire, as was discussed in an earlier post. My victim would really have to work with me. I don't think that breaching the skin would typically pose a significant problem. If it did it could be serious, but, I doubt if it would be too serious with the treatments that we have today. I pierced both of my ears and I never got an infection. I had bilateral hernia reapair and I never got an infection. I do understand that this could happen, but...
I really think that the hernia repair that I had is far more invasive than anything that I have mentioned here. I don't think we are going to accomplish this without some risk. Although, I do feel that the risks are very small.

jeffrey

[jeff71913]

When I first posted on this subject, way back when, we seemed to have had a healthy debate on the matter. I have long suspected that some form of energy may have a positive effect on tissue regeneration and after doing a little more reasearch it appears that such a thing may not be so far from the truth. Due to a strange turn of events, I now work in ultrasonic inspection at a steel tubing facility. I am level 2 UT certified and I am interested in the various uses of ultrasonic energy. A couple of weeks ago I purchased a book titled "Ultrasonics, Second Edition" by Dale Ensminger. In the book there are some very interesting comments made on tissue regeneration. The author states that regeneration of amputated tails of tritons (marine snails) was greatly stimulated by ultrasound. Also, regeneration of tissue in rabbits was also noted. There is much more information in this book and it is certainly worth the buy if you can find a copy. I should mention that most of the book deals with the types of applications that I deal with at work and many here will probably find that rather boring.
I have long believed that energy, such as ultrasonic energy, may loosen the bonds between the cells allowing the cells to more easily move apart. As the cells move away from each other space occurs between the cells and this is when mitosis takes place. When the cells are touching each other contact inhibition results and new tissue is not formed, unless the cells are cancerous. Ultrasonic energy certainly deserves further study in an effort to find more effecient ways to expand soft tissue.
The book, mentioned above, was published in the late 80s. Surely, there is more current information on the subject.

jeffrey

[greg_b]

That is not that far out an idea. Ultrasound, if I am rmemebering correctly, will essentailly set up vibrations. Don't surgeons use ultrasonic cleaners to clean their instruments? I worked for a veterinarian at one time, and we did that. Quite a vibration.

So I could see it potentially benfiting our endeavor in a couple potential ways. First, the vibrations, which essentially pull or move the skin a small amount, could perhaps increase or supplement the tension we are applying and make it more effecitve.

Second, I think I have read some articles about using an ultrsonic vibrating platform to increase muscle tone and mass. People apparently stand on it and it has the effect of working the muscles. Perhaps other effects.

But finding out if this can help, devising a way to test it, will be problematic. And since the theory behind how it could help is pretty vague, I am not sure that many will jump to try it, when we know how to do what we want to do without it.

Interesting idea, I had not thought of that.

Cheers!

[tony12345]

Ultrasound, sufficiently energetic, can cause damage to cells, which is not what you want, especially in the cavernousa.

Laser, on the otherhand, has extensive use in dermatalogical practice. The proper wavelengths can stimulate skin growth.

[gtabula]

[Post Removed]

[freddys]

Ultrasound of the proper frequency can bust the cell walls. Fifty years ago, I used ultrasound to break bacterial cell walls to extract their cytoplasmic proteins. Of course, only the proper frequency worked.
Best regards,
freddys.