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jeff71913
July 3rd, 2009, 22:58
The U.S.A. isn't perfect, but it is a wonderful country in which to live and raise a family. I would like to say thanks to all of our soldiers that are far from home and in harms way. Me and many like me salute you! You are the ones that allow us the freedom to express ourselves on forums just like this one.
Thanks again and happy 4th!
Keep up the good work.
We are very proud of you!

jeffrey

Joseph
July 4th, 2009, 11:30
I'm not sure I'm happy to celebrate the birth of a country that continues to harbor the mutilation of children. IS a nation where doctors are on the loose trying to convince you to let them mutilate your child, and where the media is constantly chanting the mantra that the foreskin is some kind of birth-defect that must be fixed really such a "wonderful place to live raise a family?"

Jeff, you're gay, right? Is a country where raids like Stonewall are still happening really worth celebrating? Should a gay man really think America is this "great place to live?" I was sad to learn what happened in Fort Worth at the Rainbow Lounge. Just before the celebration of the birth of our country, which supposedly stands for "freedom."

I also don't buy the idea that the whole reason we have freedom (if you can even think you have that at all, given the above) is because our soldiers are abroad carrying out orders to wage war on other countries.

I will say it is grand of our men to put their lives on the line. For that I'll pay my respect. I just lament that our soldier's lives may have been put in harm's way needlessly. I also lament that some soldiers have carried out shameless actions in the name of our country and of "freedom," the torture, rape, and abuse of innocent civilians abroad notwithstanding.

Don't get me wrong; my sister's in the Airforce, I've got cousins in the Navy, the Army and the Marines (one of my closest cousins is 18 and is at basic training as we speak), so nobody "supports the troops" more than I do. But let's not forget that our soldiers are but pawns in the hands of the people we allow to be our leaders. There's all this talk of "support our troops," but the fact of the matter is they do not deploy themselves; their mission is to follow orders, whatever those orders they may be.

In all our honoring our troops, let us not forget that they are not anymore special than the Kamikazes or the Nazis. Let's not forget THEY "served their country" too. Any country with any ideology can take a turn for the worst, and this nation and our men are no exception. In all our celebrating let's not lose sight of the ideals this country is supposed to stand for.

Sorry to rain on the 4th of July parade, but this country's got ways to go before I can proudly celebrate its birthdate...

jeff71913
July 4th, 2009, 15:04
Joseph, there is nothing at all wrong with you stating how you feel, although, in some countries you might be standing before a firing squad for what you just said. A while back I read where 3 men were publicly beheaded for professing that they were gay. That was not in the U.S.A. Yes, we do have a long way to go, but, we are making progress everyday.
My true nature is bisexual, however, I have never had a problem related to that. It may be because I am very masculine, not really sure. Some of the guys that I know do seem to have problems, however, they are usually the flamboyant gay type. I think this has a lot to do with it. I know a lot of gay guys that do not care for the high-strung flamboyant type.
The U.S.A. will never be perfect, but, I don't see many people trying to get out of here. As far as circumcision goes, we need to find a rock solid solution and move on. Circ will never completely end and that is why I feel as I do. Yes, when I look at the over all picture I do think the U.S.A. is a wonderful place to live and it's getting better all the time.
Doctors and parents don't circumcise to deliberately harm children. I understand that they feel there are benefits to the procedure. I strongly disagree with circ as a routine procedure, but, I can only do so much. If we really want a good solution then we should put up the money and get the medical community involved. That has been mentioned in several threads here. I really don't know what else to do.
Anyway, my Mother stopped by sonic and got me a toaster sandwich and a sprite this morning. I was thinking maybe if I sent her on a guilt trip about having me circed that she might go down and get me another one here in a bit.

P.S.
I should point out that in some countries I would have already been shot, hanged, beheaded and burned at the stake for some of the comments that I have made.


jeffrey

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 4th, 2009, 15:17
I am staying faaaar out of this particular debate.

As the old saying goes: I'm not involved, I'm not involved, I'm not involved...

finman
July 4th, 2009, 18:44
INeedAForeskinTransplant: As the old saying goes: I'm not involved, I'm not involved, I'm not involved...

In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 12:41
In Germany they first came for the Communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Communist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn't speak up because I was a Protestant.

Then they came for me —
and by that time no one was left to speak up.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Great. You piss people off by saying something, you piss people off by not saying something, you can't win, can you?

finman
July 5th, 2009, 13:03
INeedAForeskinTransplant, it is like being married then. If you say something that is wrong and if you say nothing that is wrong! :p

As in:
Wife: Do you like my new hair colour
Husband: I preferred it the way it was <<WRONG>>
or Husband: [Silence]
Wife: I know your silence means you do not like it!

By the way whose foreskin do you want transplanted onto your dick? A baby one is a little small, a European porn star's one would be bigger but may be diseased and could be worn out already from over use and you will know only too well where it has been, a US porn star probably doesn't have one to donate, and Joseph, if he has any sense, will 'hang on' to his.

There was another post today suggesting pig or rabbit ones, but the pig one will not be Halal or Kosher and could give you pig 'flu, and the rabbit one again a little small, may well have seen too much action and would be furry. There have already been too many postings from men complaining of furry dicks.

That leaves growing your own, so keep on tugging!

cobra
July 5th, 2009, 13:03
Great. You piss people off by saying something, you piss people off by not saying something, you can't win, can you?


Nope. That's the rule right under Murphy's Law and right before "Damned if you do and damned if you don't." Just smile and let the loonies rattle their bars. That's it. Just... smile... :o

cobra
July 5th, 2009, 13:07
INeedAForeskinTransplant, it is like being married then. If you say something that is wrong and if you say nothing that is wrong! :p

By the way whose foreskin do you want transplanted onto your dick? A baby one is a little small, a European porn star's one would be bigger but may be diseased and could be worn out already from over use and you will know only too well where it has been, a US porn star probably doesn't have one to donate, and Joseph, if he has any sense, will 'hang on' to his.

There was another post today suggesting pig or rabbit ones, but the pig one will not be Halal or Kosher and could give you influenza, and the rabbit one again a little small, may well have seen too much action and would be furry. There have already been too many postings from men complaining of furry dicks.

That leaves growing your own, so keep on tugging!

Haha! I want porn star Nacho Vidal's foreskin. I keep emailing him asking for it but so far all I've gotten from him is a restraining order.

finman
July 5th, 2009, 13:13
Haha! I want porn star Nacho Vidal's foreskin

If you ask nicely he may give it to but you will find it is still attached to the rest of his dick as he is Spanish/European, but the cameras would have to be rolling and you would have to bend over and make the right sounds :p:p:p

I can understand you Americans being sad on 4 July, as I only saw a few fireworks. It must be like a child losing his or her parents, no longer having a strong, wise guiding influence. Maybe if you put in a request you will be able to come back under our wing in the not too far distant future.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 13:14
INeedAForeskinTransplant, it is like being married then. If you say something that is wrong and if you say nothing that is wrong! :p

As in:
Wife: Do you like my new hair colour
Husband: I preferred it the way it was <<WRONG>>
or Husband: [Silence]
Wife: I know your silence means you do not like it!

By the way whose foreskin do you want transplanted onto your dick? A baby one is a little small, a European porn star's one would be bigger but may be diseased and could be worn out already from over use and you will know only too well where it has been, a US porn star probably doesn't have one to donate, and Joseph, if he has any sense, will 'hang on' to his.

There was another post today suggesting pig or rabbit ones, but the pig one will not be Halal or Kosher and could give you pig 'flu, and the rabbit one again a little small, may well have seen too much action and would be furry. There have already been too many postings from men complaining of furry dicks.

That leaves growing your own, so keep on tugging!

Funny. You're a laugh riot. No offense, but do you know you sound foolish when you say something like that? If you read that thread carefully and watched the video, you'd realize it isn't a joke lol. :)

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 13:21
I can understand you Americans being sad on 4 July, as I only saw a few fireworks. It must be like a child losing his or her parents, no longer having a strong, wise guiding influence. Maybe if you put in a request you will be able to come back under our wing in the not too far distant future.

Hmm, interesting analogy...there's just one problem with it, I hate my parents. :p More likely that the UK will become the 54th state in the not too far distant future, right after Iraq (51), Afghanistan (52), and Japan (53)! :p :p :p

(Seem now I'm involved....happy now finman lol? I told you it would have been better for me to stay out of it! :p )

finman
July 5th, 2009, 13:26
So do you think you can just grow a piece of tissue and sew it on to replace your lost foreskin? Even if it is visually similar, it is the function which is most important. And sewing on a piece of tissue will not replicate that.

If someone loses an ear, one may be grown on a mouse then attached and the appearance is improved. But that is a long way from a sexually functioning foreskin with its complex sensory response.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 13:28
Answer to your question:

http://www.poptech.org/popcasts/?viewcastid=224

finman
July 5th, 2009, 13:31
More likely that the UK will become the 54th state in the not too far distant future, right after Iraq (51), Afghanistan (52), and Japan (53)!

That may be better than a load of crooks in Europe deciding our laws and fate, with each country's only interest being what they can get out of the union. But will there be room on the flag for more states? So the children grow up to look after their parents.

Regenerative medicine: A good start would be to stop further circumcisions. It is no use mopping a flooded house when the water is still coming in

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 14:17
That may be better than a load of crooks in Europe deciding our laws and fate, with each country's only interest being what they can get out of the union.

Well, you know, I can agree with you there. :p

But will there be room on the flag for more states? So the children grow up to look after their parents.

There will be more room, always has been in the past, just make the stars that are already there smaller and move them up a bit, add a new row at the bottom for the twenty-first century states. The children grow up to look after their parents? Yes, exactly! It is the normal way that it is done all the time in families, so why not with nations as well?

Regenerative medicine: A good start would be to stop further circumcisions. It is no use mopping a flooded house when the water is still coming in

Well, this I certainly agree with. The idea here isn't as a substitute to stopping circ or even to non-surgical restoration, it's to give another option to those who have already unfortunately been the victims of a mutilation they never wanted, and hate, and want another option to take back control of their bodies and lives that may, in the future, provide a more complete restoration than what tugging can offer or a sort of add-on to it. Remember, this isn't surgery, this is tissue regeneration, something very much more like what we are doing every day by tugging and causing our cells to divide, growing new tissue. A massive difference, there.

finman
July 5th, 2009, 14:51
I had to reply in a different area as Lobby/Bistro will not allow pictures :mad:

jeff71913
July 5th, 2009, 17:21
The U.K. and the U.S.A. are both fine countries. Besides, most of us here in the U.S. are of English descent. And as far as fireworks go, they almost shook me out of the bed last night.
I believe that a foreskin transplant would, without question, be the wrong way to go. Anti-rejection drugs would have to be taken for the rest of the individuals life. And if the person was young that might be a very long time. These drugs can cause significant liver damage, etc. Tissue regeneration will most likely offer the greatest hope. In that case the new foreskin would not be rejected by the body as it would be your own tissue.

jeffrey

finman
July 5th, 2009, 17:41
It is more likely, I guess (no more than that) to be human tissue making up the ear on a mouse pumped with anti-rejection drugs, otherwise your pet cat may be overly interested in your dick, or your dick might twitch whenever it is close to cheese.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 5th, 2009, 18:57
The immaturity is palpable here. Finman, my friend, you have a very childish sense of humour. Anyone ever politely suggested you grow up a bit? :p

cobra
July 6th, 2009, 00:00
Hey, I have a radical new idea on how to regenerate foreskin tissue. See, there is this thing that plastic surgeons use called "skin expansion". Using a low-level tensioning device, hypermitosis is induced in the dermis which culminates in enough cloned foreskin tissue to recover the glans. Uh... oh, wait... I think someone already came up with that idea. Dang.

finman
July 6th, 2009, 13:04
Original post by INeedAForeskinTransplant:
I hate my parents

and you are giving me lessons on maturity??? :confused:

We all may grow old waiting for development of a regenerated foreskin when circumcision is of more interest to doctors. I, like many, would rather take some action now than wait for a day that may never come.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 6th, 2009, 23:46
and you are giving me lessons on maturity??? :confused:

We all may grow old waiting for development of a regenerated foreskin when circumcision is of more interest to doctors. I, like many, would rather take some action now than wait for a day that may never come.

At least I'm not cracking constant, childish bathroom-humour jokes. You keep talking about how bad circumcision is, which I couldn't agree with more, but you don't think I ought to hate my parents for doing it to me? :confused: More than a little ridiculous.

And why do people keep suggesting to me that I "try" tugging, again and again, as if I were not already doing it? Just because of my name, people keep making these comments to me over and over again. Are you not reading what I'm saying?? Yes, I am also interested in alternate forms of possible regeneration but just because I have this username, I don't know how many times I have to say this before people will hear it: I AM DOING SKIN EXPANSION MANUAL TUGGING ON MY FORESKIN (or what's left of it).

jeff71913
July 7th, 2009, 08:22
If you're parents had you circumcised to deliberately hurt you, I would say yes, hate is fair enought. However, that is almost certainly not the case. No parent is perfect and to hate them for something they probably know little about is not a good idea. Circumcision is a procedure born of ignorance and can only be stopped through education and compassion for humanity.
I do hope you try to deal with this hatred as you will not benefit from it. And there will probably come a time that you will regret it. I felt like this when I was young, but, I have evolved emotionally and now I see that it did me no good.

jeffrey

INeedAForeskinTransplant
July 7th, 2009, 22:21
If you're parents had you circumcised to deliberately hurt you, I would say yes, hate is fair enought. However, that is almost certainly not the case. No parent is perfect and to hate them for something they probably know little about is not a good idea. Circumcision is a procedure born of ignorance and can only be stopped through education and compassion for humanity.
I do hope you try to deal with this hatred as you will not benefit from it. And there will probably come a time that you will regret it. I felt like this when I was young, but, I have evolved emotionally and now I see that it did me no good.

jeffrey

Thanks for your thoughts, Jeffrey. I understand what you're trying to say but there are several factors: first and foremost, I don't care why they did it to me, the fact that they did it to me is enough. If I were to pay someone to do a similar thing to my mother right now to what she did to me (something I have often wished I could do), I doubt she would care why. Secondly, I have confronted my parents and they continue to maintain that they did nothing wrong by circumcising me and it is good for me that I'm circumcised. :mad: Thirdly, even if I were to forgive all this, my parents treat me like crap in many other ways that have nothing at all to do with circ. I deal with them as best I can to try to maintain as civil a relationship as possible, but I doubt I'll be lining up for any big family group hug sessions any time soon.