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Joseph
September 30th, 2009, 10:10
Please counsel me...

I need help not hating these two lesbian moms for allowing a doctor to mutilate their newborn son...

http://www.momssquared.com/to-circumcise-or-not-circumcis/

You would think that as women who more than likely are pro-choice...

You would think that as lesbians who fight for equal rights...

That they would be the people least likely to do this...

I read this account, and it sounds like the most airheaded, the most stupid excuse for a reason to circumcise...

The doctor told you your son would be in the 80%... and since "he would already be different because we're lesbian..."

GOD.

FUCKing USOECHSROCHI?RLS<$CIH>z-0(Y$Gc/098G><~!!!!


I'm absolutely tearing out my hair.

Instead of letting him be who he is you force him to conform.

What would be your reaction if someone forcefully married you to a man?

So that you'd be like most other nice girls?

*EDIT* What if your on turned out gay? Would you beat him straight so that he "won't be made fun of by other boys?"

I absolutely HATE these ... UGH. I better not say something i'll regret later.

Someone. Please help me. I'm seriously at wit's end.

Bashar
September 30th, 2009, 12:04
of course there's nothing any of us can do to stop the madness that has happened. but the other day i got to thinking how circumcision affects our psychological thought process. first of all, i'm sure newborns are just like animals, they cannot separate their thoughts (and the analysis of those thoughts) from reality. if a boy is out in the sun and looks at his shadow he will notice 3 things:

the shadow copies his every move
it is attached to him
it moves in a lifelike way

they will consider it to be another entity locked with them in reality that just wants to mimic their every move instead of being a phenomenon of light because they must superimpose their thoughts on reality. it appears to move by means of a life force so it must be living. they can't make that disconnection from reality to focus on higher thought just yet so it never occurs to them that their life energy is being reflected in the shadow. i'm sure we all remember looking at our shadows closely when we were 5 or 6.

so anyways, in regards to circumcision, i think the people present during the procedure has a big effect on how the child perceives the situation. if it's just one male doctor cutting, the child will think completely different thoughts than if it were a female doctor because (assuming it's a boy) the baby looks at all women (including his mother) differently than men. at the very least babies cannot be breast fed by dad. so if there's a man cutting and a female nurse helping that could elicit completely different thoughts again. "the man is hurting me and the woman is helping, both of them are in on this, they are working together to give me this trauma.

imagine all the unconscious thoughts one might have later on then... the man is instigating the most evil thing i've experienced and the woman is fine with it. they are both forcing this on me and my cries for them to stop are not working so to them this must be absolutely necessary but to me it's unexplainable pain. you can keep a scientist from doing an experiment if you take away the necessary tools so i imagine circumcision to be the highest form of betrayal. the possibilities of what the baby might think are endless and it has hours of shock after the procedure to work through all of it and in its most willing state to boot.

so for the son of the two lesbians i can't imagine how it affected him. all i can say is just stop it. nobody pulls out their fingernails because not having to cut them justifies all the unknown complications that could happen. it's stupidity like i've never known.

i am so bitter about my circumcision because the doctor left a bit of rigded band skin (or is it frenulum still...) under my damaged frenulum and around my scar line. just a little bit, but some bits are so erogenous that i can feel them when my dick contracts, but it's just an incomplete circle of sensation. it constantly feels like there's something missing there and when i found out that i was missing my foreskin i didn't know what to feel. i could feel the base of the sensation of foreskin but nothing more and the only question that's in my head right now is why did this happen. what SOB with foreskin decided it should be cut in the first place?

Joseph
September 30th, 2009, 12:15
About perceptions...

I'm seriously trying very hard not to look at it as, "these two male-hating lesbians have taken out their hate on this poor child... they did this out of sheer desire to express power and imposition on someone of the male sex. These two women are the most hateful creatures in creation... What's with that "we carry the child for 9 months" quip? Was the circumcision supposed to be some sort of comeback for you? 'tee-hee?' ugh."

I know it's just another set of parents who were duped or were willfully ignorant... but GOD. If there even is one...

Bashar
September 30th, 2009, 22:52
that puts me into very deep thought. they would be the cruelest people on this earth if that were the case, whether they knew it was or not.

you know what, this has always been what's been holding me down. i have ALWAYS known something was wrong with my penis. i'm really reflecting on my past right now and it all makes sense how i felt things in ways i couldn't continue.

i believe the mind is a reflection of the body in the deepest ways. i can relate every possible thing my mind can do with a physical aspect of my body like: the same way i can walk and run, i can slowly go through my thoughts or i can speed through them... etc. i can manipulate things with my hands and i can twist and remodel a thought... so the lack of foreskin must have some effect on my libido. and it's not something i can't feel at all, that's what makes it worse. much the same way as it is harder to take not having fingers if you can feel the advantages of having just one. i can feel a very outstanding sensation on these parts of my scar line that stick out. i don't know if it's part of my rigded band or what but it feels good and i don't know what the entirety of that sensation is. i wonder what my life would've been like had i not had the psychological scarring. i wonder how much safer i would've felt in life. i've always felt it, something in my libido starting and then suddenly fading away before i am satisfied. there was quite while where i couldn't sleep at night because the thought of a knife to my penis wouldn't go away, and i would dream about my penis being cut. all these thoughts came to me way before i knew about foreskin and the real harm of circumcision. i didn't know what it meant and i thought it was my mind trying to torture me. now i think it was trying to answer my life long question of "what's wrong with me?"

i've gotta restore cause it's the best thing i could possibly do.

Yunus
October 1st, 2009, 01:10
There is no reason not to hate these women in your link,Bro.

I hate it when they said "The biggest one for us was his health and safety and it is nice to know that there is a probability that sometime in the near future that it will be recommended that all boys will be required to have it done after birth for health reasons.".

It is just like disgusting,fucking,hypocrite,& foolish statement which I really hate.
They didn't think that it is an irrational procedure.They didn't realize how mutilation like circumcision become healthy procedure for healthy reason,etc.

Joseph
October 1st, 2009, 04:44
"Mama T has had several people tell her stories of men and or teenagers having to get it done because of penile cancer and other issues that have developed."

The friend of a friend never fails.

I'd to know more of these men and teenagers who developed penile cancer and "other issues."

Fucking, stupid IDIOT.

Yunus
October 1st, 2009, 04:47
"Mama T has had several people tell her stories of men and or teenagers having to get it done because of penile cancer and other issues that have developed."

The friend of a friend never fails.

I'd to know more of these men and teenagers who developed penile cancer and "other issues."

Fucking, stupid IDIOT.

I think that she mean the men and teenagers who were circumfestish activist & told her about their biased stories.
Why don't you shut up her mouth?

1Taoist
October 2nd, 2009, 22:59
I gotta say...this gripe has merit. These two assholefaces are examples of one-step-forward-two-steps-back. Of how hyperhomosexuality can be as destructive as homophobia. These two are so focused on their enemies they are mutilating their own flesh and blood.

Makes me depressed. How are we to grow as a people in understanding and accepting- appreciating -sexual orientation differences, when these differences are expressed in exactly the same destructive patterns as hate and discrimination. It's a lesbian form of reverse-racism. And a blatant disregard for the male gender.

A difficult phenomenon I have observed in my lifetime is a sort of male-abhorence in the lesbian gender. The effort to reduce men to sperm-donor status, the marginalization of male necessity most specifically in the area of procreation, is rather noticeable. One gay friend told me that he has observed another curious phenom- that women who are "wired" to be lesbian naturally...also lack the impulse to bear children. I said I found that hard to believe. But he returned that the preponderance of lesbian women who actually have children is lower than I think. He indicated that the gene that turns on the attraction to same sex turns off the impulse to procreate. A challenging concept.

Notice how I didn't say "penis-abhorence". Lesbians use strap-ons, which means there is a penis-envy situation, or penis-substitute. But no male.

Circ culture is rooted in ignorance. In some instances is a form of penis-hatred. But in this case, it is a form of ignorance layered with male-abhorence. And they are subconsciously clumping their own flesh with the rest of men, the unnecessary gender.

Yunus
October 3rd, 2009, 04:10
This sentence which was said by a lesbian,"The biggest one for us was his health and safety and it is nice to know that there is a probability that sometime in the near future that it will be recommended that all boys will be required to have it done after birth for health reasons.",still made me feel disgusting.

These hypocrite lesbians are the bad mothers.I will make a big protest if these lesbians get the title as the best parent in their environment. :mad::mad::mad:
They hated the males especially adult males,but they didn't have any power to release their hates on adult males.
So,they focused on that poor little child,who was considered as a son by these lesbian mothers,to release their hates on males by mutilating that poor little male child.

These lesbians are really true cowards.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

greg_b
October 3rd, 2009, 07:08
When I read that piece, all I is see are two parents struggling with a difficult decision and making a poor choice because:

1) the doctor gave them biased, incomplete, and incorrect information,

2) their friends gave them biased and unsupported information based on fear, and

3) they let their irrational fears of him potentially not fitting in well guide them.

They weighed the pros and cons. That is all you can expect someone to do. Given biased, incomplete, and incorrect information it is unreasonable to expect a good decision. Add fear mongering to that and it becomes almost impossible.

But they are no different than many others in our society. Struggling to make a good decision, but unable to because they cannot get full disclosue form trusted sources of information. I think they made a reasonable attempt to make a good decision. Thier blog is a good example of why people still decide to subject thier sons to RIC.

Regards

1Taoist
October 3rd, 2009, 12:51
Greg B, no way. Your attempt to be neutrally non-judgemental in this case makes you miss the point AND fall flat. I say this, cuz they did NOT make a reasonable attempt. I made a reasonable attempt. Others have made reasonable attempts. And they found intactivist info. Not that hard.

Those that make a reasonable attempt, find it. Those that reject the MOUNTAINS of info, and aren't swayed by it, can't be. The only people who really aren't don't look at it. In other words, these women made a reasonable attempt to find CAUSE TO CIRC. And they found it.

You are only half-right. It's almost impossible to get good info if you don't look for it. Only an idiot looks at one side of an issue. It was impossible for them to make the right choice because they are unreasonable people.

Tally
October 3rd, 2009, 14:25
Taoist makes some good points. These women did not make a real attempt.

I am always saddened when I see people who are trying to make a decision ask others for their opinion. Kind of like people want to make it a democratic process. "I asked 10 {mod: most likely cut} guys and they all said to have the baby cut. They have a penis, so they should know." That is BS. I notice that far too many people cannot make their own decisions. They have to ask others or they wander around until they find something that supports their subconscious leanings. Like Taoist said, they wanted to find a reason to cut the baby.

The facts for and against circumcision are out there. Every reason given to justify RIC has been debunked or placed in serious question. Any rational, thinking person can only come to one conclusion, which is routine infant circumcision is not necessary.

Because many people do not come to that conclusion tells me that there are factors out there biasing decisions. Culture is a big one. The US culture is to cut and not think about it. Contributing to that is many men's denial that there is anything wrong with their cut dick. But, these are excuses to not think. They are not reasons to cut.

If these woman had made an attempt and then acted rationally, they would have acted differently. Supposedly, the difference between humans and other animals is that humans are capable of rational thought. Using that standard, these women have not quite reached human status.

greg_b
October 3rd, 2009, 14:33
There are many issues that we do not know about this case. I have to go by what they provided. Their words clearly show an attempt to find information and make a good decision.

Judge them as you wish. Sure they could have done better. I will save my feelings of outrage at the decision for the doctors and medical community who misinformed them.

Regards

1Taoist
October 3rd, 2009, 19:27
Why? Why only them? Docs don't make decisions. Therefore they are not AS responsible.

And their "words" show they clearly made an attempt? Their WORDS? How bout their actions? That's the point we're making. Who gives a fuck what they say? They didn't act to find out, and they acted out their dysfunction.

What do you think they would have done had they seen am infant circ video?

Many people think this is a discussion, not an actual act. They ignore the act by focusing on the discussion. There are no words to describe this act, to capture it. I'll bet you a million dollars the actual woman who carried the child had second thoughts, doubts; the one who didn't, didn't. Cuz she is cut. Cut off from the instinctual aversion to this act upon the child one just brought into the world. Men (fathers) even have this. But we miss this cuz a.) we were cut; b.) we don't give birth to the child. Only one of the women in the relationship can carry the child. The other is the man.

Women who carry and are for this lie to themselves to do it. Or they have suffered some abuse at the hands of men. Whatever the inversion, or unwiring of their maternal instinct, circ is unnatural. I believe this may have some of the same subconscious fallout associated with abortion in women who've done it: not nearly to the degree, but of the same destructive nature.

My official prediction is these women will not stay together, cuz they make poor decisions. And they will fight over the custody of this boy, and the "man-woman" will lose. She will not merely lose, she will get shut out, cuz her DNA isn't this child. The birth-mother's unconscious guilt/doubt/anger will come out at this time. And this child's problems will be not the straight people who looked at him sideways cuz he has an unconventional set of parents, but because he has a dysfunctional set.

Joseph
October 4th, 2009, 00:28
I think greg has a point.

On the one hand, these women should have made a better attempt to find more accurate information, instead of looking under a rock and saying "well, it isn't HERE..."

On the other hand, doctors are the ones who are supposed to know better.

You don't facilitate these "decisions" for parents.

Just as doctors would not circumcise a girl at the behest of Muslim parents, doctors should be refusing to circumcise boys, let alone elicit a "decision" from stupid parents like these.

Don't get me wrong, I REALLY hate these women right now.

But there shouldn't have been a "decision" to make in the first place.

Therefore it's DOCTORS who are at greater fault. For all other matters, they're matter-of-fact. For this one "decision" they're suddenly stupid as the three blind mice.

See how they run...

Someone mundane
October 4th, 2009, 04:47
Both Taoist and Greg make some real thought-provoking points on this...

I am mostly unsure of what to think, exactly. But, I'm not happy with them either. I wonder if some of the same psychology involved appeals to the "circ for no cervical cancer!" BS. That's one of the only ways woman may directly "benefit" from it. And it does a bit of fear mongering on the side. "Well, his future partner may..." Of course, this misses the fact whether he would even WANT a future partner or not. Not everyone is of the same mind. Stupid, stupid mindlessly conforming people. Edit: Oh, wait... Did I say people? I'm sorry, I meant animals.

Yunus
October 4th, 2009, 08:53
Animals never circumcise other male animals.
But,humans circumcised other male humans.

Circumcision made humans wilder than animals & have no morality.
Intelligence was given to the humans,but humans didn't use intelligence to realize how irrational circumcision is.
So,did circumcision make these humans same or worst than animals?

I mean humans who are circumfestish people.

greg_b
October 4th, 2009, 09:18
Why? Why only them? Docs don't make decisions. Therefore they are not AS responsible.

And their "words" show they clearly made an attempt? Their WORDS? How bout their actions? That's the point we're making...

It sounds like you have not read and thought about what was posted and what I have posted. Or else you are misunderstanding. You might try a few clarifying questions and rephrasing to see if your understanding is correct.

I think I explained the "why" well. I am not really sure what else to say. maybe you can be more specific about what you do not understand about why.

I did not say "only the doctors." I said the women could have done better. No argument there. The point I am making is that the women did attempt to make a good decision, at least as their blog presents. And I am sure we are not getting the whole story from the words posted in their blog. But that is all we have.

But the Doctors gave them bad information. Incomplete information. Biased information. Outright wrong information. Doctors and the medical community do this all the time. And do sway people. Even thought they are under no obligation to do so. Doctors even go against their own guidelines of "first do no harm" and are two faced about genital modification. There is even case law protecting doctors from going against what they feel is right.

No one can be reasonably expected to make a good decision with bad information. Doctors are held to a high standard, and are considered to be authorities on medical information. Not passive agressive proponents of RIC.

I agree that the final decision maker carries the responsibility for the decision. I do not see how this point applies. I was not saying they were not responsible.

The rest of your post appears to be wild specualtion and guess work. You are welcome to you opinions.

Regards

Joseph
October 4th, 2009, 09:38
The point I am making is that the women did attempt to make a good decision, at least as their blog presents.

I think this is where you differ with Tao and myself.

Ideally doctors should know better. However, the current situation one such that doctors pretend to be stupid and let stupid naive parents make stupid decisions based on misinformation given. Doctors COUNT on parents being naive and stupid, and for the most part they are right, because parents take the word of doctors as the word of god, which is why they get a good turnout.

I agree with Tao; No, these women did NOT attempt to make a good decision. By what their blog presents, either their minds were made up or were looking for corroboration, or they really are that stupid and dense.

If they REALLY wanted to weigh the pros and cons, they would have done better research, other than the word-of-mouth stories their friend's friend told them about boys with cancer, or what the CDC says. How is it they let "what other boys in the lockerroom would think" become medical argument is beyond me.

greg_b
October 4th, 2009, 11:19
Yes, that is the crux of it. You and others feel outrage apparently because you read between the lines and conclude that they should have done better.

I recognize that how good a job they did is unclear, and it could be true that they failed to do a reasonable job, or it could be true that they did a reasonable job with the information they were able to obtain. But based on what is contained in their blog, they lay out a thought process that weighed the pros and cons.

I have seen far worse many times. People who only use emotional arguments, bullying, fear mongering to force their ideas on others. People who let a minor advantage totally overwhelm their decision. Who Ignore the uncertainties and who will not even listen to other points. Frankly, I would rather have these two women, based on what they said in their blog. I feel as though, given better information, they would have made a different decision. But that is me speculating and reading between the lines. Not worth much.

In either case it is unfortunate for their child.

Regards

1Taoist
October 4th, 2009, 13:41
This myopic "doc-hate" doesn't further any understanding. Ultimately, every person is responsible for their own decisions. Attacking and blaming doctors- even those who have wrong info and apply wrong encouragement -is just kicking the can down the road. Are the docs supposed to blame who taught them, and who taught them...and who taught them...

All this does is go further from the source. You go further out to find blame. And further out. And all this is...is relieving one of their own blame. The internal blame, the personal responsibility one has at their core. Nobody put a gun to these women's heads. The docs may have thought guns are a good idea, as is shooting yourself, but they agreed and picked up the gun. They're all wrong, but docs are only the official stamp on this act. They are co-conspirators, but if these women had good sense, they'd have found intactivist info, and found it sound. My guess is these women miss a lot in life. Their lives are a convoluted mess of "us against the world" lesbianistic marginalization that tilts all interaction with the world in a defensive way.
They are damaged people who never had a chance cuz they weren't wired for a world that doesn't accept them.

Their docs' own bad-info/educated-ego combined- MATED -with their pre-existing defensive thinking, plus ignorance of male sexuality, and the result is a faux sense of good-parenting and child-concern.

In the end, the farther out people go to place blame or responsibility the more they avoid the internal, which is behind everything, and places them squarely at the source.

greg_b
October 4th, 2009, 14:46
Shrug. I do not hate doctors. I think they play an extremely valuable role in maintaining health and curing disease.

But I also think it is important to understand the situation. Understand how people come to make bad decisions. And not spend a lot of time speculating and judging without information.

But that is just my style. You have yours. To me the logic being used to judge and condem these women was flawed. It seemed based on assumptions unsupported by the facts as can be known from their blog.

My only point was to state an alternative way of looking at the situation, and get people to think a bit more about it.

Regards

Americut
October 4th, 2009, 15:29
But there shouldn't have been a "decision" to make in the first place.

This has been a big part of my anti-circ discussions, as of late. There shouldn't even BE this decision/choice to make. It's not like expecting parents have to sit around and "decide" if their baby will have fingers or toes removed, upon birth. "Honey, I think its time we discuss which body parts we're going to remove from our baby." How can this decision even exist, today :eek:

1Taoist
October 4th, 2009, 15:42
Greg- You don't present anything that explains how people- even these people -come to make bad decisions. Other than "the docs and friends gave them bad info". Thanks Greg. I mean Captain Obvious.

My explanations of the psycho-cultural sexual-orientation components which played a role (I believe) in this- you called wild spec and guesswork. I think it is you that needs to go back and re-think, even begin to think, so that you have something even to add. Your posts reflect what you've claimed in the case of these women- they are just a bunch of words, no meaning behind them. No thought. No passion. You are vanilla, Greg. You like to be plain on purpose, so as to be so neutral as to not achieve any clear point or penetrate the topic. To fall flat.

Many people who don't really think much about circ have your flavor. They just don't go deep cuz they can't. According to your presentation here, it is simply a bad decision. They tried, they failed. But you fail, too. I say that as an addition to this thread and it's purpose and, hopefully, value to anyone reading. You fail to penetrate this particular problem, topic, and this kind of failure propagates more bad decisions- because people continue to make these errors upon errors adding up to more errors because they don't find out what's behind it all. This is the chief benefit to therapy- one learns, penetrates, what's behind their issues, thoughts, and actions. Once we uncover unconscious processes and motivations, we see why more and more people fall for bad info and make bad decisions.

greg_b
October 5th, 2009, 04:59
lol, ok, let me see if I understand what you are saying.

People who prefer to stick to facts are not kinky? Not sure what sexual preferences have to add to this discussion...

Speculation leads to deeper insight. Hmm, I would say you either have this backwards, or are missing the critical step. I think the only way that speculation leads to deeper understanding is if, after the speculation, you then gather more facts and carefully test that speculation against those additional facts and observations.

Depth of knowledge can certainly lead to new insights and allow one to better speculate, but not the reverse. Speculation, without depth of knowledge, and without testing the speculations, simply leads to misinformation believing falsehoods. Sure, you may find the occasional nugget and by chance it turns out you were right, but as a strategy for gaining deeper understanding? I do not think so.

But it is fun to speculate. Very human. We Vulcans have moved past that for the most part.

Regards

Joseph
October 5th, 2009, 10:18
This myopic "doc-hate" doesn't further any understanding. Ultimately, every person is responsible for their own decisions. Attacking and blaming doctors- even those who have wrong info and apply wrong encouragement -is just kicking the can down the road. Are the docs supposed to blame who taught them, and who taught them...and who taught them...

All this does is go further from the source. You go further out to find blame. And further out. And all this is...is relieving one of their own blame. The internal blame, the personal responsibility one has at their core. Nobody put a gun to these women's heads. The docs may have thought guns are a good idea, as is shooting yourself, but they agreed and picked up the gun. They're all wrong, but docs are only the official stamp on this act. They are co-conspirators, but if these women had good sense, they'd have found intactivist info, and found it sound. My guess is these women miss a lot in life. Their lives are a convoluted mess of "us against the world" lesbianistic marginalization that tilts all interaction with the world in a defensive way.
They are damaged people who never had a chance cuz they weren't wired for a world that doesn't accept them.

Their docs' own bad-info/educated-ego combined- MATED -with their pre-existing defensive thinking, plus ignorance of male sexuality, and the result is a faux sense of good-parenting and child-concern.

In the end, the farther out people go to place blame or responsibility the more they avoid the internal, which is behind everything, and places them squarely at the source.

I really don't think it's like "kicking a can down the road."

The buck stops at the doctor. It might sound myopic to say that, but you gotta realize, parents aren't paid to know things. That's the doctor's job.

Idealistically, DOCTORS should be the ones researching and providing accurate and correct information, and furthermore REFUSING to do perform worthless surgery.

I realize, this in and of itself is an ideal, it is wishful thinking, and the current situation is such that the buck is passed to parents, who are given misinformation and herded towards circumcision anyway.

For that, I can only blame these women for not going out of their way to research more.

Joseph
October 5th, 2009, 10:23
This has been a big part of my anti-circ discussions, as of late. There shouldn't even BE this decision/choice to make. It's not like expecting parents have to sit around and "decide" if their baby will have fingers or toes removed, upon birth. "Honey, I think its time we discuss which body parts we're going to remove from our baby." How can this decision even exist, today :eek:

Yeah.

If you think about it, what other part is a doctor obliged to remove at a parent's behest?

Because:

"I'm the parent, it's my decision?"

"It's my religion?"

"I want him to look like his father?"

Notice how these aren't medical indications for any other surgery.

Notice how these aren't medical indications.

:rolleyes:

Yunus
October 5th, 2009, 10:27
Oh,what a damned circumcision!!! :mad::mad::mad:

greg_b
October 6th, 2009, 05:30
Yeah.

If you think about it, what other part is a doctor obliged to remove at a parent's behest?

Because:

"I'm the parent, it's my decision?"

"It's my religion?"

"I want him to look like his father?"

Notice how these aren't medical indications for any other surgery.

Notice how these aren't medical indications.

:rolleyes:

Very good point Joseph. That is why people, including these gals, need to be informed consumers. Check what their doctor is saying. Don't simply trust, double check. If it doesn't make sense to you, figure out why. You are responsible for your decisions, but our society and the medical community should be helping us, not obscuring the information.

And our society should be protecting the rights of children, no matter what the sex. If it is illegal for girls, it should be illegal for boys. Simple. And well supported by our society. Except for RIC...makes me shake my head in disbelief.

Regards

Tally
October 6th, 2009, 10:54
Very good point Joseph. That is why people, including these gals, need to be informed consumers. Check what their doctor is saying. Don't simply trust, double check. If it doesn't make sense to you, figure out why. You are responsible for your decisions, but our society and the medical community should be helping us, not obscuring the information.
This is where I have the problem with these women. Being informed consumers is not enough. That consumer must be able to process the information and be able to make a rational decision. It helps to do as you note, that is, not be too trustful of authority figures. Each person needs to be think about stuff and not just look for information that supports their prejudices and biases.

Unfortunately, too many people go through life on autopilot. They may collect information, but they are not processing that information nor are they acting on it.

greg_b
October 6th, 2009, 16:23
This is where I have the problem with these women. Being informed consumers is not enough. That consumer must be able to process the information and be able to make a rational decision. It helps to do as you note, that is, not be too trustful of authority figures. Each person needs to be think about stuff and not just look for information that supports their prejudices and biases.

Unfortunately, too many people go through life on autopilot. They may collect information, but they are not processing that information nor are they acting on it.

I agree with you Tally, and in fact what you point out is completely compatible with what I have said, at least in my mind.

Regards

1Taoist
October 6th, 2009, 17:27
Understanding does not come from facts. Ever.

1Taoist
October 6th, 2009, 17:46
And some people go thru life over-thinkin, projecting, and with a constant pre-formulated condition.