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Sigismond
January 18th, 2010, 08:23
"THOU SHALL NOT CIRCUMCISE."

A THREE-MILLENIAL FALSIFICATION (*):
THE 2nd COMMANDMENT BANS SEXUAL MUTILATION

John the Baptist and Jesus gave their lives for baptism by water rather than by the trauma of the “original” punishment, conceived to prevent “sin”. Nu-merous other Jewish criticisms of circumcision occurred, for socio-political and juridical reasons (the criminal and segregationist custom is the deep cause of Judeophobia and of the Nazi genocide): Spinoza, Olry Terquem, Bernard Lazare, Freud, sometimes quelled by blood (Machabees). The most elaborated one came from German Reform rabbis, in the 19th century; it was also based on religion: circumcision was ordered to Abraham, not to Moses, the Book of Deuteronomy (the Book of Moses, and the Ten Commandments) does not prescribe it, Moses opposed that of his son (Exodus, 4: 24-26), it was not practised under his reign (it was set back into practice in Gilgal, for men only, after his death – Joshua, 5: 2-9), there is no (no longer) equivalent for girls. (cf. Encyclopaedia Judaica. Jerusalem: Keter publishing house limited; 1972. t. V, p. 571).

Prior to Moses, worshipers of the masculine phallus and contemptuous of the feminine one, the Egyptians practised, and still do, upon children, the most terrible repression that can be imagined of infantile sexuality. Spanking hits behind what is so gently done in front. As shown by Ernst's painting: “The Virgin thrashing the Child Jesus” (Ludwig Museum, Köln), where the fallen halo hints at the cut off foreskin, sexual mutilation accompanies it. It castrates the youth from the specific organs of autosexuality. Whereas it had been imposed on the Jews as a measure of enslavement, Moses the liberator could not tolerate it. The 2nd Commandment considers that these ablations make the phallus a fetish and that a “jealous” God cannot admit such idolatry. He thus denounces chapter 17 of the Book of Genesis. In the same vein, after having killed the Egyptian murderer (Exodus, 2: 11-12), the son of Bedouins chooses nomadism praised by nowadays Jewish writers, rather than the genocide of his Canaanite brothers. This was fatal to him; according to Freud and a few Egyptologists, keeping his skin whole could not save it from the Levites.

Similarly qualifying circumcision “a barbarous and bleeding rite” (quoted by the Dictionnaire encyclopédique du judaïsme. Paris: Editions du cerf; 1993. p. 433), Abraham Geiger and his mosaicist, democrat and feminist friends founded the first post-Renaissance Jewish movement refusing circumcision. It was an outcry in the community, orchestrated by Hirsh (one of the founders of Zionism). Though having perfectly understood Moses, the reformist could not believe their eyes of the falsification of one of the Ten Commandments. When the rabbinical authorities answered their arguments, most dissidents, after twenty years resistance, came back to circumcision. But the “heresy” had gained the United States where many practise non-mutilating nomi-nation.

The falsification here denounced hides that the 2nd Commandment forbids circumcision and that God seems to have changed his mind between both Covenants. Indeed, the following verses:

“You shall not make yourself idols, nor whatever image... for... I am a jealous God, who prosecute the crime of fathers upon children up to the third and fourth generations for those who offend me, and who extends my benevolence up to the thousandth for those who love me and keep my commandments.” (Exodus, 20: 4-6, French Rabbinate translation (literally translated). Paris: Les éditions Colbo; 1999),

are read as if they said: “… who punish children for the crimes of fathers” but,

- if the sentence had this meaning, it would also have this construction,

- the conjunction “for” marks the link of cause to effect between the ban of idols and images and the punishment of “the crime of fathers upon children” that precisely alters the image of the human body,

- according to the orthodox interpretation, “the crime of fathers” designates criminality in general. But the text would then use either the double singular: the crime of the father, or the double plural: the crimes of fathers. “The crime of fathers” can only be the well-known crime upon children: sexual mutila-tion,

- this interpretation gives the term jealous” the immoderate meaning of suspicious till the injustice of condemning irresponsible ones. A jealous God is very plainly jealous of his own creation, which man cannot alter without usurping God's place,

- the dissymmetry between a boundless reward and a limited in time punish-ment is due to the dissymmetry between ascendants and descendants,

- it would be unlikely that there should be two commandments, the 2nd and the 6th (“Do not commit homicide.”) for condemning common criminality,

- the 2nd Commandment brings out paedo-sexual criminality because it is very particularly reprehensible. Moses was aware of the gravity of mass crimes, striking a whole part of the population, and above all children. Stigmatizing sexual mutilation as crime against creation (humanity), he punishes it in an imprescriptible way, hitting the elderly decades after their crime,

- the version of the 2nd Commandment in the Book of Deuteronomy (5: 9), a book of priests easy to modify, rubs the terms: “upon children” out. But how could the most sacred text of the Torah, carved in stone by God in person, have varied?! This physical falsification aimed at favouring the above described intellectual falsification of the Book of the Exodus, well-known to the people and impossible to alter. The blue-pencilling could be operated at the return from the exile in Babylon, at the time of the alleged discovery of the manuscript buried in the temple. It enabled setting circumcision, which had had to be given up in the jails of Nebuchadnezzar, back into force; it was a custom of the Egyptians, his worst enemies from whom it was vital to be distinguished (cf. Sabbah M. and R. The secrets of the Exodus. London: Thorsons Ltd; 2002),

- a few verses below the 2nd Commandment, the Bible enlighqtens it:

“If however you build a stone altar for me, do not build it with carved stones for by touching them with the iron, you made them lay. You must not either walk up my altar through de-grees so that your nudity does not uncover itself there.” (the latter touch makes Moses a shrewd sexologist, advocating capped penetration) (Exodus, 20: 21-23)

- at last, through abolishing sexual mutilation, Moses tolls the bell for the inhuman “exclusion from the people” inflicted to opponents of sexual mutilation; it instituted the worst discrimination and segregation, since allegedly conferring collective identity through a so-called divine order.

The divine periphrasis was therefore denatured. In order to hide that the expression: “the crime of fathers” aims at sexual mutilation, the victims of Abraham's lie twisted it through introducing a nonexistent double meaning. Moses abolished Abraham’s commandment because law may not speak against life. His 2nd and 6th Commandments make the Decalogue, the first historical declaration of the duties and rights of man, a declaration of the human person’s very first, indivisible, inalienable and sacred right: the right to the body. It forbids the death penalty and mutilation without grave and strictly medical motive. We are requiring its inscription as article 1st of the Universal declaration of the rights of the human person.

peterpink
January 18th, 2010, 12:42
Unfortunately religion works both ways. In 1874 a Jewish surgeon wrote to The Lancet:

… the removal of the prepuce reduces in an extraordinary degree the sensitiveness of the glans penis; and apart from Biblical reasons, which necessarily have no place in your journal. I believe that the intention of the rite was to enhance and advance as far as possible the chastity of the race by blunting mechanically the sensibility of the organ of sexual appetite.

Joseph
January 18th, 2010, 16:45
I believe this guy is only echoing Maimonides...

Borneo
January 19th, 2010, 02:41
While this may prove useful to the faithful, I as a non-believer don't feel confident arguing a cause using rhetoric from what I think are fairy tales. It has me begin the debate from a position of weakness, not conviction.

That said, for those who are faithful, quoting a rarely cited scripture (I never heard of it, and used to be Christian) could spur debate among the most ardent biblical literalists, but I found most Christians dismiss half of the Bible as not applicable to them, so that mileage may vary among the rest.

Sigismond
January 19th, 2010, 09:57
A rarely cited scripture, the 2nd Commandment?! You must be kidding.

Borneo
January 20th, 2010, 15:22
A rarely cited scripture, the 2nd Commandment?! You must be kidding.

You are stretching the Second Commandment to include this, where circ is a Jewish rite ordained in other parts of the OT. It's a pretty tall order to bridge the argument using it. If I used this, non-sequitur would be the first thing out of my target's mouth.

Yunus
January 20th, 2010, 23:32
I can imagine how bad the feeling of circumcised penis is.

What I meant here is the feeling at the penis,not the emotion.

I think that these religious people which support circumcision and weren't circumcised as baby already know that circumcised penis has bad feeling.

But,they want to replace this bad feeling with the other benefits which are lies in order to justify their religious teaching on supporting circumcision.

They don't want that their religious teaching make them disappointed,so they make many justification on their circumcision teaching.

Sigismond
January 21st, 2010, 05:57
"You are stretching the Second Commandment to include this, where circ is a Jewish rite ordained in other parts of the OT. It's a pretty tall order to bridge the argument using it. If I used this, non-sequitur would be the first thing out of my target's mouth."

Since my discovery of this falsification, first the contradiction between the 2nd Commandment and these other parts of the scriptures is obvious, second it is likely that these parts were false: thence the contradiction between Genesis 17 about circumcision and Genesis 15 that tells the same without circumcision.

Whatever it is, whatever the orthodoxy is, the logic of this 2nd Commandment is obvious and must be respected.

One can even say that the infortunes of the Jewish people are a consequence of this absence of respect.

ctrclckws
January 21st, 2010, 06:24
I seem to remember reading about the history of the Bible / Old Testament that it was an oral history first, then written down and translated again and again over the years.

In the process of the oral transfer and the writing and translations, things have been "adjusted" by the writers and translators, guided by the priests of course.

One of these things may well have been the covenant of circumcision.

Books describing the history of routine circumcision, even those by Jewish authors, have stated that the nature of the proscribed circumcision cut changed. Initially, just the tip, then later, more but still not completely exposing the glans. Only in Roman or possibly Greek times was the circumcision done today the prescribed manner.

A lot can be read into the good book.

Borneo
January 21st, 2010, 16:19
"You are stretching the Second Commandment to include this, where circ is a Jewish rite ordained in other parts of the OT. It's a pretty tall order to bridge the argument using it. If I used this, non-sequitur would be the first thing out of my target's mouth."

Since my discovery of this falsification, first the contradiction between the 2nd Commandment and these other parts of the scriptures is obvious, second it is likely that these parts were false: thence the contradiction between Genesis 17 about circumcision and Genesis 15 that tells the same without circumcision.

Whatever it is, whatever the orthodoxy is, the logic of this 2nd Commandment is obvious and must be respected.

One can even say that the infortunes of the Jewish people are a consequence of this absence of respect.

I cannot argue on the logic of using biblical contradictions to further a cause. All your explanation does do for me is reenforce my conclusion that this book is chock full of indefensible contradictions and thus a total waste of energy to believe the bullshit it has written in it.

admin
January 21st, 2010, 19:39
I seem to remember reading about the history of the Bible / Old Testament that it was an oral history first, then written down and translated again and again over the years.

In the process of the oral transfer and the writing and translations, things have been "adjusted" by the writers and translators, guided by the priests of course.

One of these things may well have been the covenant of circumcision.
Absolutely. Multiple historians agree the story of Abraham existed for hundreds of years - and was set down by the J authors - without circumcision in it. Circumcision was added by the P authors between 1000 and 600 BC. Circumcision WAS practiced by the Hebrews before it was in the story of Abraham.

ctrclckws
January 22nd, 2010, 03:53
Circumcision WAS practiced by the Hebrews before it was in the story of Abraham.

"Practiced" does not mean REQUIRED to show your faith.

Changes to support an agenda.

Sigismond
January 22nd, 2010, 11:14
The Ten Commandments are universally considered the major ethical and juridical text of ancient times.

greg_b
January 22nd, 2010, 18:03
The Ten Commandments are universally considered the major ethical and juridical text of ancient times.

Universally? I think there are some that would disagree with that statement, like those practicing Buddhism, Hinduism, and many other faiths.

Regards

peterpink
January 22nd, 2010, 18:11
To which set of Ten Commandments do you refer? There are two in the Hebrew bible, as well as many hundreds of other rules which nobody in the world follows because they are either silly or ethically unacceptable today.

Yunus
January 29th, 2010, 02:24
Read this :
http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/forum/showthread.php?t=3898