A new member from Italy - introduction

[italiano71x]

Hi all,
I am 38 and I'm from Italy.

I was circumcised 2 years ago just because my partner is, and he wanted me to be.
The urologist didn't do a good job (suture marks, uneven scar)... Now I'm looking some way to repair, that's why I'm here. I hope I can have good advice, and give it back if I can.

I want to be clear: I'm not an "intactivist" and I am not against circumcision on principle. I feel ok in being circumcised, but I don't feel ok in being circumcised in the way I am now. That's all... I'm into foreskin restoration just because I need to regain my skin in order to have a revision, not to have my foreskin back. That's not important to me.

I hope you can accept me here without discrimination and respecting my personal views and needs... I'm not interested in disputing about circumcision, I only need to share with you issues abot foreskin restoration.

Otherwise, I would be pleased to talk with whoever has some questions about being intact. I have been intact for 36 years of my life and I think I am really aware of the difference between being intact and being circumcised. Even if I can't generalize my experience to all men (I can talk only about MY body, MY sensations, etc.) maybe it could be useful information for someone.

Forgive my bad english!

Carlo (italiano71x)

[Joseph]

Welcome, Italiano.

I don't think you can be discriminated against for making your own choice.

It is your body, your choice, which is the whole idea behind Intactivism.

No one in here is "against" circumcision per se, we simply are against the forced circumcision of minors, and/or individuals without their consent. You gave your consent, so no one is judging you.

Just realize that this IS decidedly a pro-restoration, pro-foreskin forum, and most men are here because they want to restore their foreskins, because they didn't have a choice like you. This forum may be unhelpful and unsuited to your needs, because most information and advice given in here will be geared towards restoring the foreskin, not growing slack skin for a revision.

Good luck in finding what you seek.

[greg_b]

Welcome.

Restoration will grow back your foreskin. You can then do with it as you will.

You may find that you can learn something form the guys here as well. Two years without your foreskin is not very long. Many effects take longer than that. Having lived with circumcised penises for far longer than you, we may have insights you cannot have.

Cheers!

[Someone mundane]

I want to be clear: I'm not an "intactivist" and I am not against circumcision on principle.

That's fine. But I do hope you have some measure of sympathy for the principle that it is something you shouldn't force on somebody. I was circumcised as an infant, I wish I had my foreskin. Obviously, it's not nearly so easy for me to get it back as it is to cut it off.

That said, I respect your choice, because it's what you want. I don't care if you grew up intact and wanted to be circumcised, it is just with infants that most of us here have a problem with.

Ask your doctor if he knows about tissue expansion, that is well known or should be. Let him know about your idea for a revision by doing that for a while to expand the problem areas further out that you want revised. We call it foreskin restoration, but it is tissue expansion in effect. Although if he messed it up the first time, do you trust him with it again?

[6423463]

Hi Carlo,

Some questions for you if you don't mind from someone who was circumcised at birth. Please feel free to reply in private message or not to reply at all if what I am asking is too personal.

How tight is your circumcision? How much of the frenulum was left intact? From your experience, was your foreskin the most sensitive part of your penis? The most pleasurable part? Do you find sex more or less enjoyable now that the sensitivity of the foreskin is gone? I might have more, but I wanted to ask those first. Much thanks in advance!

[Joseph]

MY question for you, italiano, is, your first doctor left you with an undesireable circumcision.

So...

What measures are you taking so that it isn't botched a second time?

There are plastic surgeons out there that are artists dedicated to "perfect" circumcisions. They might cost, but if you want a "good" job, it might be good for you to spend.

Foreskin restoration takes time. It would be a shame if you spent all this time in effort in growing slack skin only to have the job botched again.

[finman]

Hi, so you had 36 years to enjoy the normal sensations of a foreskin. That is 36 years more than most of us here, or at least me.

What you now have to look forward to is decreasing sexual pleasure for the rest of your life. What a good choice you have made, to have your penis mutilated. Of course you are free to make your choice, just as someone is free to smoke cigarettes and damage their health. Like cigarettes the damaging results take time to appear but are equally irreversible. What is lost, is lost.

Hopefully, as you restore you will appreciate the benefits and continue until you have something similar to what you had at 35 years old, although it will never be perfect. Then you may discard any ideas of re-circumcision.

[Someone mundane]

Hi, so you had 36 years to enjoy the normal sensations of a foreskin. That is 36 years more than most of us here, or at least me.

What you now have to look forward to is decreasing sexual pleasure for the rest of your life. What a good choice you have made, to have your penis mutilated. Of course you are free to make your choice, just as someone is free to smoke cigarettes and damage their health. Like cigarettes the damaging results take time to appear but are equally irreversible. What is lost, is lost.

Hopefully, as you restore you will appreciate the benefits and continue until you have something similar to what you had at 35 years old, although it will never be perfect. Then you may discard any ideas of re-circumcision.

Uncalled for.

1: Unhelpful to the subject.
2: Entire post is preaching things he has probably heard before and specifically asked not to hear.
3: Ridiculing him for making his own choice? Really? Yeah it seems terribly foolish to us for him to squander that body part but at least he was a grown man who wanted it to be done rather than an infant who later grew up to hate it like most here. Myself included.

[Joseph]

Someone mundane is right.

italiano was up front about his goals and agenda, and he was polite about it. He stated that he plans to get a touch-up job, but he hasn't exactly advocated for the circumcision of non-consenting individuals.

If we intactivists are worth our salt, we will respect italiano's prerogative over his body.

At the same time, I hope italiano realizes that he proposes to do will be looked upon disfavorably in a pro-restoration, pro-foreskin forum, especially by men who didn't have a choice.

(Hopefully) We're all mature adults in here. Let's please keep it civilized.

[italiano71x]

Hi,
thank you all for your answers!
I expected my presence here could make trouble for someone, that's why I did want to explain in my introduction that I am not here to discuss about circumcision (pro or against). Now, I want to add that my presence here in this forum is not intended to offend anyone, and that I don't want to quarrel or discuss if someone's personal choices are better than others'.
I disagree with forced choices, especially for children, not only for circumcision but for everything. I can imagine the way you feel without a foreskin... maybe it's something similar to the way I felt when I realized I had lost my foreskin forever without having got what I was looking for: regret, anger, sadness, shame for such an important body part that I couldn't accept like that.
I made a choice. I would like you to accept my choice as I accept yours understanding your personal reasons and needs. I liked what Joseph told me: "It is your body, your choice, which is the whole idea behind Intactivism". Choosing implicates freedom, and I believe that forced circumcision of minors is not freedom.

I have been circumcised for two years, and yes, maybe I have to look forward decreasing sexual sensations. I percectly knew this. But at the moment, my sexual sensations are good. My orgasms are less intense than before, but they are still pleasureful and satisfactory. I noted this difference, but it's not so important to me (maybe I will change idea after some years!).
I observed that all circumcised men I have had sex with enjoy sex like uncut men do. Obviously I can't measure their subjective sensations, but this observation reassured me when I decided to get circumcised.

"Your first doctor left you with an undesireable circumcision... What measures are you taking so that it isn't botched a second time?" My answer: I will change my doctor. I subscribed to a group where I had the contact of a competent urologist in Atlanta. He is not pro or against circumcision: he just tries to satisfy his clients needs, whatever they are. I keep in contact with him. His advice to me was to make a period of foreskin restoration in order to grow skin and then make a revision to have the kind of circumcision I wanted first (that's why I am here, as I said).

"How tight is your circumcision? How much of the frenulum was left intact? From your experience, was your foreskin the most sensitive part of your penis? The most pleasurable part? Do you find sex more or less enjoyable now that the sensitivity of the foreskin is gone?" My answers: I have a high and loose cut, my CI could be 3 or 4. Frenulum was largely cut, it remains approximately 0.4'. In my experience, frenulum zone is more important than frenulum in itself to have good sexual sensations, so I still enjoy stimulation in that area, and I have enjoyable sex. Foreskin was an important sensitive part but I don't deplore its missing because inner foreskin remained is enough. I deplore that such important sensations, even if still gratifying, are confined in a band of skin of 0.3/0.4'. That's why I suppose that a high cut is better than a low cut in order to maintain sexual sensations.

I hope that you can understand my bad english!

[Joseph]

I think I am familiar with this person in Atlanta. If I'm not mistaken, he runs a "circumcision center" of sorts. He may or may not be involved in the mutilation of children. I don't know, and I'd rather not.

"Your first doctor left you with an undesireable circumcision... What measures are you taking so that it isn't botched a second time?" My answer: I will change my doctor. I subscribed to a group where I had the contact of a competent urologist in Atlanta. He is not pro or against circumcision: he just tries to satisfy his clients needs, whatever they are. I keep in contact with him. His advice to me was to make a period of foreskin restoration in order to grow skin and then make a revision to have the kind of circumcision I wanted first (that's why I am here, as I said).

I find this a bit intriguing.

The circumcisor sending his patient to restore. Perhaps on the one hand, he might bad mouth to others about what kooks restorers are... but here, he has found that they may be auxiliary to his trade.

It's like a kind of strange symbiosis.

Your English is impeccable so far. Had you not mentioned it, perhaps I wouldn't have known you were Italian.

Thank you for acknowledging that circumcising a healthy child violates his freedom. I think this is the only real "dispute" that you'll really find on this forum.

Others might be a bit envious of you, as they might see what you have done as throwing away the very thing they want to achieve here.

But I think that they'll eventually come 'round, especially after you have acknowledged that it should be a personal choice.

As I've already said, I hope you find what you're looking for here.

[freddys]

Welcome, italiano71x,

You are not the only one needing a "touch-up". Do make sure that you grow enough skin before the second cut, and discuss with the surgeon exactly what you want. The restoration process is too slow to have to repeat it!

Best regards,
freddys

[madbr3991]

Welcome italiano71x i wont reject you. it was your body thus your choice. i have no issue with people doing whatever they want to there own bodies. your body should look however you want it to. restore a little and get your cut how you want it. when talking to the doctor be precise.

my issue is with people that do this to babies and children. and i don't like some doctors for the same reason.
i was circumcised at 4 i still have nightmares about it. i am sure if i could have thought logically at the time i would have opposed it. but right now in the US. children don't have the right to resist any surgery that there parents or doctor would have decided for them.

i accept that it was completely your choice italiano71x. and i would like to hear your thought about the results.

and one question comes to mind right away. would you ever subject anyone else to the kinda pain you experienced?

[italiano71x]

Dear madbr... no, I would never impose anyone the pain I experienced, but I would let anyone choose it if he wants.
I had no idea that circumcision could be so traumatic... most people in Italy are not cut, so this is not an issue.
Here in Italy doctors give advice to circumcise only when there are problems in foreskin opening around the glans (phimosis), but when a man realizes he has such a problem, he is grown-up enough to copy with all this.
Otherwise, Italian doctors give this advice too easily when they could try to solve this problem by other means... circumcision is such an easy intervention to do! Let me say also that they unfrequently know what a good cut would be to preserve the more sensitivity as possible (high and tight, or high and loose) and they usually cut low and loose. I realized this looking at photos in an Italian group of circumcised men I am subscribed too. This kind of cut tends to preserve natural smoothness of the glans, but reduces a lot the area of pleasure.

[madbr3991]

thank you for replying italiano71x. im glad to hear that you would never do this to anyone else. like i said im fine with someone doing whatever they want to there own body.

here in the US people are forcing the pain of circumcision on babies. that is one reason it has continued for so long in the us. a lot of men don't remember the pain. so they don't hesitate to do it to there children. this is perhaps one of the largest reasons people on this forum are so outraged over circumcision

[Them Boots]

Do you guys remember that case where a 13 year old boy had lymphoma? His parents refused chemo, the boy refused chemo as well because of the horrendous side effects, and some judge said I don't give a diddly squat what anyone wants, you give that boy chemo otherwise I will order Child Protective Services to take custody, and by golly he will get chemo!!!!

IIRC, arrest warrants were issued for the boy's parents when they tried to take him to an undisclosed location.

Madbr3991 was talking about rights of children, it's even worse that one would think...parents don't have that many rights anymore either. While we're on this track, in Texas they recently tried to force all female children to submit to what amounts to an STD vaccine (it's the one for HPV, I don't know if it's ok to name it by brand so I won't.)

If these so-called studies keep coming out that claim to prove that circumcision inoculates boys/men against STD's, is it not so farfetched to one day consider that RIC might be mandatory "in the interests of public health?"

I have absolutely no problem with an adult choosing to get circumcised either, it's his body, his choice, and if he has considered all of the ramifications of the procedure then I would support his decision 100%. I'm a big fan of "live and let live," if I was uncut up to this point and wanted to go get cut, I would expect the same lack of interference from others as well.

Like others said, it's the routine assault of children that's the problem.

[Joseph]

K guys, don't mean to be rude, but we're veering off topic.

We can talk about all the injustices imposed on children in the Intactivism part of the forum.

Let's stick with how we can help italiano?

italiano, what does your circumcision look like now, and what is your end goal?

Do you wish to grow more inner or outer skin? Did you want a "low" or "high" cut? Loose or tight, etc.?

Share what you want to do, and the guys that have experience in those areas can help you.

[italiano71x]

Joseph you're right... I'm going to post soon in the general restoration discussion part of the forum.

[finman]

I have been criticised for my posting and I apologise for any hurt caused.

Post after post has said:
It is your body, your choice

but was it? I do not think so. Certainly your body, certainly NOT your choice.

I was circumcised 2 years ago just because my partner is, and he wanted me to be

Many girls sleep with boyfriends because they fear they will lose their boyfriend if they refuse. He was mutilated, so he wanted you to be the same. If he lost a leg in an auto accident, would you book your hospital bed to have the same done to please him? Obviously not.

The urologist didn't do a good job (suture marks, uneven scar)... Now I'm looking some way to repair, that's why I'm here

They never do a 'good' job as they are seriously and permanently damaging your penis. Initially appearance wise, later loss of sensation.

A long standing model agent said he had never known of a model who stopped at one cosmetic surgery operation. They were never satisfied and always had more.

Few men have circumcision later in life and of those I would be very surprised if many, maybe not any, were ever fully advised of the inevitable results.

[nuuu4]

Hi Italiano

I respect that as an informed adult you made a choice. I have absolutely no issue with you asking for assistance to grow a new foreskin to have it removed in order to improve the quality of your circumcision. It is probably wise to seek help from doctors in the U.S.A, unfortunately they have lots of experience and have improved on circumcision methodology.

You must have an exceptionally good relationship with your partner to make such a decision at his request. You mentioned that the U.S.A doctor advised you to restore your foreskin somewhat to allow a second improved surgical procedure. Is this the first you have heard of foreskin restoration or did you know about it prior to your decision to be circumcised.

I am not sure on the motivation for your partner to want you to be circumcised as he is. Perhaps if the goal was for you both to be the same, you both could just restore?

[Julian]

Carlo

Benvenuto, welcome. Do you have less sensation now than before? It doesn't sound like you do, since you don't want your circumcision un-done, just re-done. It's a bit confusing.

If you want scar tissue removed or reduced, I can understand.

I'm thinking of having mine removed and hopefully what will replace it is smoother. Why would I even think of this? Because as for complete restoration - it seems like a dream and far in to the future. This whole "prepuce coming back like magic" doesn't seem real to me, and it's not soon enough.

Julian

[Julian]

I have nothing personal against italiano71x, and I hope he gets what he wants.

I would like to know about any perception of change in sensation.

--

For the record, I think circumcision to humans and any other animals, in this day and age, should be banned, no matter what the age. And there should be the death penalty, because it's so sick and heinous.

Let me clarify this with an example:

A man (obviously not sane) wants his arm surgically removed. Do any of you agree with the idea that he's an adult and it's his body?

Notice the wording. I said "in this day and age". What this means is, in any normal era (age), we wouldn't need laws to tell us not to have sex with children, not to kill, and not to mutilate. But in this day and age, these laws stating the obvious are necessary, because people are so dumbed down, they even deny circumcision is mutilation.... until they see the dictionary definition of mutilation. Then they say nothing and start talking about something else.

I digress a little, but I do want to know about the specifics of italiano71x's perceived sensation post-circumcision and any feedback from any of you guys would be interesting.

[italiano71x]

I'm here neither to polemize nor to justify myself, I'm here only to learn how to restore my inner foreskin and reach my personal goals.
These are my personal goals, you can accept them or not.

My personal sensation are decreased a little, but I can enjoy sex and have good orgasms.

[Someone mundane]

I'm here neither to polemize nor to justify myself, I'm here only to learn how to restore my inner foreskin and reach my personal goals.
These are my personal goals, you can accept them or not.

My personal sensation are decreased a little, but I can enjoy sex and have good orgasms.

Slightly abrasive there. Are you sure you understood them? To me, it seemed as though they were only expressing some concern that the relationship may be a bit slanted if you got cut solely for what he wanted. But anyway, I'm not pushing it and you can easily dismiss it if you like.

As for what Julian said;

For the record, I think circumcision to humans and any other animals, in this day and age, should be banned, no matter what the age. And there should be the death penalty, because it's so sick and heinous.

I have to disagree strongly with this. What of those parents who made an honest mistake that were brainwashed into thinking it's a good thing to cut their kids? Would you put them down too? I am generally averse to overly harsh punishments, but I guess it depends on how far the penalty extends.

A man (obviously not sane) wants his arm surgically removed. Do any of you agree with the idea that he's an adult and it's his body?

I hate to say it, but this is an example better suited for the more extreme spectrum. Circumcising a penis is just not quite the same thing as cutting it off entirely, but please don't misunderstand me here; I do think it's still entirely wrong to be doing to a non-consenting minor. It really should be no brainer common sense.