Circumcision and Karma

[Julian]

Some say: There are no karmic repercussions for eating meat.

Some claim: Circumcision isn't related to eating meat.

Some argue: There are no karmic repercussions for anything.

Some think: There are karmic repercussions for some things, but not for others. For example, a person who steals my car will burn in hell, but there is no price for me to pay for eating cheeseburgers.

---

Circumcision being karma still isn't reason to let it continue, but "doing de-circ" successfully should probably entail "un-doing some bad things".

---

"Oh, I can cut up animals and eat them, but because I'm human, I'm more important, and I don't get bad karma from getting others to kill the animals for me. Being cut myself is definitely not related to cutting other animals or having others do my dirty work for me."

---

Hmmmmm.

[finman]

Some say...keep away from acid

[Z-bop]

I'm vegan bro... and I say there is no karma. If Karma was a reality, where is the punishment from all of the 4,000 children that die each day from starvation? Where is the karma from all those who kill from their religion. Where is the karma from those who base their life decisions from their life choices? Where is the karma with those that capitalize from the death and destruction of others (our species and others)?

Karma is what people hope for when they choose not to do anything. Karma is what people hope for when they choose not to be involved. Karma is what people try to see when someone does wrong (in their eyes), and it goes bad for that person. Karma does not exist.

Speak to others of the wrongs of circumcision (male and female). Speak to others of the wrongs of species-ism(seeing others as less than us). If you make effort for the betterment, then feel no wrong. If you do nothing, and just hope...and want it to be better... then you are wrong.

Never feel guilty if you put effort towards something. If it's not something you care about... and do nothing... then feel sorrow. Your actions speak louder than words.

[admin]

I'm vegan bro... and I say there is no karma. If Karma was a reality, where is the punishment from all of the 4,000 children that die each day from starvation? Where is the karma from all those who kill from their religion. Where is the karma from those who base their life decisions from their life choices? Where is the karma with those that capitalize from the death and destruction of others (our species and others)?

I'm of a natural world view, but I think some who subscribe to Karma (cause of action) believe that present or past actions are the cause of future consequences. Those could be so far into the future as to befall a re-incarnated version of an entity. So if good Karma causes good things to befall those who discharge their dharma (duty) nobly, then bad Karma could be the reason today's mutilator is tomorrow's dung beetle.

It's comforting to some to imagine everybody getting what they deserve, but I'm comforted knowing there is nothing I did to deserve genital amputation, nor is my fate the fault of an omniscient omnipotent being that could have intervened but chose not to out of neglect or spite.

-Ron

[Julian]

Some say...keep away from acid

And what kind of acid are you talking about? Drugs?

It would sometimes seem that karma doesn't make sense because there are some rich murderers out there, but like Ron said, people have their dharma (duty, raison d'etre). So in your next life do you want to ignore your dharma be a dung beetle in your next life? It doesn't mean we understand all the workings and timings of karma, but there is a general law of karma. Some don't believe in it - fair enough. I can totally respect that.

As (generally) a meat-eating society, wouldn't it make sense that some of the children would be circumcised as punishment? Christians call this "original sin". Wouldn't it makes sense that NOT ALL would be circumcised? Wouldn't it make sense that there would be individual karmic repercussions for individual cases, all of which are different? Circ would only be one of many karmic repercussions. The karmic combinations would be basically endless.

Now of course, someone will say "hey, there are lots of kids in meat-eating societies and less than 1% of the kids are circumcised." Fair enough, but they may have other karmic baggage.

I think basically anyone alive has some karmic baggage. I believe that circumcision MAY be a punishment - not necessarily for a past life - it might be for meat-eating or whatever in THIS life. Who says it has to be linear?

But the general idea of karma seems to make sense.

Another angle:

Look up "Kali Yug". It would make perfect sense, if we are in Kali Yug, that there would be circumcision.

(Some) doctors are worse than pedophiles during this era, and (some) priests ARE pedophiles.

The "Bull of Dharma" during this age only has one leg.

Welcome to Kali Yug, people!

ॐ

[Julian]

I'm of a natural world view, but I think some who subscribe to Karma (cause of action) believe that present or past actions are the cause of future consequences. Those could be so far into the future as to befall a re-incarnated version of an entity. So if good Karma causes good things to befall those who discharge their dharma (duty) nobly, then bad Karma could be the reason today's mutilator is tomorrow's dung beetle.

It's comforting to some to imagine everybody getting what they deserve, but I'm comforted knowing there is nothing I did to deserve genital amputation, nor is my fate the fault of an omniscient omnipotent being that could have intervened but chose not to out of neglect or spite.

-Ron

Ron, I like your take on it, more or less. I admire your views very much. My take is slightly different. I take some amount of "comfort", not that I'm massively needing comfort or anything, but there is some "comfort", in my mind at least, that the circumcision was NOT unfair or that it did NOT come "from out of nowhere, unfairly". In a manner of speaking, we are lucky to be given the chance to pay off our "bad" karma (maybe karma isn't good or bad, but just IS)!

So, if we stop doing (enter sth potentially "bad"), maybe we will deserve a foreskin, if that's where our mind is at.

For example:

I want my foreskin back. I also want to deserve it! So, I tug for a couple of years, and I, for example, stop eating meat and/or stop wearing leather.

Is it perfect? No. Is it something in the right direction? Yes. Does it reduce suffering? Yes.

Shades of grey, people.

There is no perfection for living beings.

कर्म (karma) = action/do

This word is related to the English word create/do.

KRma / CReate

"Every act is a karmic act."

Doesn't this make more sense than:

"Uh, you can do whatever you want, and there will be no price for it."

I think, generally, people who use the English word "deserve" subscribe to the theory of karma.

"Yeah, he totally DESERVED that!" (sounds like a person who believes in karmic repercussions - actions and re-actions)

ॐ

[hoodrat]

Ron, I like your take on it, more or less. I admire your views very much. My take is slightly different. I take some amount of "comfort", not that I'm massively needing comfort or anything, but there is some "comfort", in my mind at least, that the circumcision was NOT unfair or that it did NOT come "from out of nowhere, unfairly". In a manner of speaking, we are lucky to be given the chance to pay off our "bad" karma (maybe karma isn't good or bad, but just IS)!

So, if we stop doing (enter sth potentially "bad"), maybe we will deserve a foreskin, if that's where our mind is at.

For example:

I want my foreskin back. I also want to deserve it! So, I tug for a couple of years, and I, for example, stop eating meat and/or stop wearing leather.

You're obviously entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. If it works for you, great. But I don't need to do anything to deserve my foreskin. The child slaves and soldiers in Africa don't do anything to deserve their arms being cut off. Likewise they certainly don't need to any acts of penance to get a prosthetic.

I'm glad your theory gives you comfort, but it sounds like it was traumatic for you (as it was for many of us) and you're in some kind of denial. I'm not trying to be mean, just throwing out a suggestion in hopes you can be comforted.

It's hard to accept that we were circumcised for literally no reason. It's ridiculous, absurd and a shocking violation of our human rights. I believe Ron refers to himself as an amputee. While I do like that, I've always likened it to rape/child sexual abuse myself.

Honestly, I feel raped. If some guy, forgive the strong words, jerks off a child to make money that guy will go to prison for a variety of crimes. But when some guy took me, ripped my foreskin back and proceeded to cut it off, he got a big fat paycheck and that was that.

I was sexually violated. All of us were. And it's common for victims of various types of sexual abuse, such as rape, to blame it on themselves. This, I think, is where your theory stems from.

It's not your fault. It's not even your parents' fault. It's the sick doctor who agreed to do no harm in his Hypocritic Oath. It's the private health care system of America. Any coincidence that America is the only industrialized nation with private health care AND the only industrialized nation that routinely circumcises infants?

Like I said, I'm glad this makes you feel comfortable. But it really is probably unhealthy in the long run to blame yourself.