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View Full Version : Time of Circumcision Poll - II


Joseph
October 10th, 2007, 09:28
I guess you can't take too long making the poll? That's dumb...

I'll post it again.

cloud7
October 10th, 2007, 15:20
may want to add more options, very limited answers

Joseph
October 10th, 2007, 19:01
Funny, I thought there might have been TOO MANY options...

Any suggestions?

And I'm not sure I can change the poll once it's been put up... :(

cloud7
October 10th, 2007, 20:08
well....

Between 1 and 10; the doctor said I had "problems."

could be other options, parents could have just decided

maybe remove the notes on the side and just ask ranges and split them up like

0-10days
first year
1-5 yr old
6-10
11-18
18 and older

another poll would be well suited to why the circumcision was done

just done in the family, traditional
religious
medical problem prevention
cosmetics (thought it looked better)
cleanliness concerns
so you would "fit in"
girlfriend/wife wanted it
thought it looked better
a true medical problem (phimosis, etc)

etc

Joseph
October 10th, 2007, 22:57
Well, I purposefully limited my responses, and here are my reasons.

First, it goes without saying that the list for excuses for circumcising a newborn is virtually endless. Furthermore, it is my belief that most parents in America that decided to circumcise their children, already had the decision to circumcise in mind, and only pull from this long long list of excuses. I'm sure that some parents MAY have been dwindling on what to do, but it is my belief that they are negligible. This is America. Parents for the most part have decided they want their sons circumcised for whatever reason early on.

Moving onto the 1-10 yo age range, I really don't think that parents decided just suddenly that they thought they'd have their son circumcised. In fact, in most cases that I have read about and have been personally involved with, most children circumcised after the newborn period were done because the doctor scared the parents with threats of penile cancer and phimosis problems later on. There is a small percentage of parents who disagreed later on and in fact ended up in court for the matter. Also, perhaps parents that decided to convert to Judaism or Islam. Google the ongoing case in Oregon for details. But I think here too, those are rare cases. Children circumcised in this age are most likely circumcised because someone found out the child wasn't circumcised and suggested it. Usually, the doctor, because he/she is the person who has access to the child's genitals besides the parents and/or care takers of the child. For this reason, I abreviated it to "because the doctor said so..."

Moving onto the 10-18 range, again, if the child isn't circumcised by this time, he would most likely be left intact. UNLESS, there is some intervention. One such possible intervention is the advent of Islam, where children are circumcised before puberty. Or if the parents are Philipino and follow the tradition of "tule," or circumcision to mark a rite of passage. Another intervention is American doctors that keep pressuring parents and teenagers to circumcise. Perhaps a child may have actually had a problem, ie the foreskin wasn't retracting, and doctors advised to circumcise. (Which is stupid, because it would still be too early to tell if a child had phimosis or not.) In which case, the answer would still be, the doctor suggested it.

And finally, 18 and over.

By this time, if retraction hasn't fully happened yet, doctors, esp. American/Jewish doctors would tell a young man that the only way is circumcision. There are of course alternatives such as skin creams and gentle stretching, similar to the way restoration happens, but try having a doctor suggest that in America. At 18 and over, a man might see circumcision as his only choice.

And then, there is conformity. It's really sad that a man has to sink to the level of circumcising himself to appease other members of society; a double-standard in how we try to teach Americans to be "individuals," but then say that "everyone should look the same." But it happens.

I could have used all 20 slots, but I really wanted to reduce the options to the most likely, and most prevalent. Not trying to discount other possible reasons.

I could be wrong. Maybe there IS a greater deal of parents that just thought one day "hmm. maybe we'll circumcise him. just for the hell of it!" But in my close to 10 years as an intactivist, it's usually not the case. In fact, I haven't heard of a case where parents spontaneously decided to circumcise their toddler/1 to 10 yo. If a child is circumcised later on, what I've usually heard is because doctors scared parents, and/or the parents are Muslim/Philipino. OR, and I've heard this even lesser still, parents decided to become Jewish and circumcise jr. while they're at it. For the most part, from the cases that I've heard of, most kids that aren't circumcised as babies usually make it with their foreskin. Kids circumcised between the ages of 1 and 10 had their parents scared into doing it. (from what I heard, I could be wrong.)

I'm always open to enlightenment, and I'd like to hear more. I don't mind standing corrected... :)

Joseph
October 10th, 2007, 22:59
As for the reasons "why?"

I really think there wouldn't be enough slots in the poll to fill.

Check this list out...

http://www.circumstitions.com/Stitions&refs.html

freddys
October 19th, 2007, 22:07
Circumcised at age 4 (to make me stop playing with myself).

David
October 20th, 2007, 07:23
Circumcised at age 4 (to make me stop playing with myself).

That is so sad for so many reasons: (1) playing with yourself is normal, (2) cut guys play with themselves too, and (3) gave you an early-age negative picture of the penis (e.g. "it can get you in trouble").

That doctor's license should be revoked! No medical ethics at all

:mad:

Joseph
October 21st, 2007, 04:22
yeah, I guess it's ok for little girls to play with themselves, but not little boys.

The sexism of it all...

freddys
October 21st, 2007, 22:11
Dear Joseph and David,
Thank you for your understanding.
I was circumcised in 1934 or 1935 in Belgium. At the time, Catholicism was the state religion, and I suppose doctors did what the church commanded. My grandmother (the only one of my relatives who ever went to church) is the one who took me to the doctor. After the operation, I remember asking my mother why I had gone to the hospital (where one of the nuns called me a dirty sinner after I threw up, from the effects of the chloroform that was used as an anesthetic). My mother became agitated and told me never to talk about it to anyone, which I did until now. But at the beginning of the German occupation, after a medical visit at the school, we were issued an envelope containing an identification tag, which we were supposed to keep at all times under our shirt. I found out that boys got a tag in the shape of a cross, and I got a round one, to show that I was not Jewish, but only a sinner. The Jewish boys' tags were in the shape of a star of David. Actually, that tag may have saved my life. About three weeks after D-Day, when I had to drop my pants for a group of soldiers who were trying to round up the last Jews, the officer who look at me did not check the tag. I was taken with two other younger boys, by soldiers with growling dogs, to some type of laboratory, which may have been at the Solvay University in Brussels. There, a man in a white coat, who must have been Belgian, as he spoke French without an accent, told me to undress, and when he saw the tag, he laughed and called a soldier who took me back to school. I never saw the other two boys again, but I did not know them since they were in a lower grade.
I came to the US in 1950, an still have resentment toward the Catholic church (I am a presbyterian now).
I hope you understand why I have been reluctant to talk about it. But it still haunted me enough to discuss surgical foreskin restoration with my wife, about a year after we were married, around 1960 or 1961. She encouraged me to talk to a doctor. But the doctor acted as if I was crazy; he told me that circumcised men do not get penis cancer, and their wives do not get cervical cancer. Of course I believe it, enough to let the pediatrician circumcise our son who was born in 1965. I am so sorry about it now, but I have not had the courage to talk to him about it
I did not know about nonsurgical foreskin restoration until last December, when our daughter gave me a computer with internet access. My poor wive of 50 years is now in the later stages of Alzheimer's, but I know that she would have supported me. So, even if it does not actually matter for our relationship, I do it for her.
Thank you for letting me finally talk about it.

Joseph
October 21st, 2007, 23:49
Keeping silent is precisely what keeps circumcision perpetuated in the US.

More people like you need to come out about their resentment instead of trying to be "real men" by pretending it didn't hurt and pretending to be "over it."

What a shame that that stupid nun added insult to your injury.

A dirty sinner indeed. I bet she rubbed her clit every night.

I bet she helped keep clergy "chaste." Isn't sex among the clergy the whole reason there were orphanages? Homes to "love children?"

It's so horrible that you had to go through all of that.

Did they ever take in little girls to have their clit cut out to "keep them from sinning...?" I doubt it. Systemized sexual abuse and mutilation of boys.

THANK you for sharing your story.

Frankly
November 4th, 2007, 17:58
Dear Joseph and David,
Thank you for your understanding.
I was circumcised in 1934 or 1935 in Belgium. At the time, Catholicism was the state religion, and I suppose doctors did what the church commanded. My grandmother (the only one of my relatives who ever went to church) is the one who took me to the doctor. After the operation, I remember asking my mother why I had gone to the hospital (where one of the nuns called me a dirty sinner after I threw up, from the effects of the chloroform that was used as an anesthetic). My mother became agitated and told me never to talk about it to anyone, which I did until now. But at the beginning of the German occupation, after a medical visit at the school, we were issued an envelope containing an identification tag, which we were supposed to keep at all times under our shirt. I found out that boys got a tag in the shape of a cross, and I got a round one, to show that I was not Jewish, but only a sinner. The Jewish boys' tags were in the shape of a star of David. Actually, that tag may have saved my life. About three weeks after D-Day, when I had to drop my pants for a group of soldiers who were trying to round up the last Jews, the officer who look at me did not check the tag. I was taken with two other younger boys, by soldiers with growling dogs, to some type of laboratory, which may have been at the Solvay University in Brussels. There, a man in a white coat, who must have been Belgian, as he spoke French without an accent, told me to undress, and when he saw the tag, he laughed and called a soldier who took me back to school. I never saw the other two boys again, but I did not know them since they were in a lower grade.
I came to the US in 1950, an still have resentment toward the Catholic church (I am a presbyterian now).
I hope you understand why I have been reluctant to talk about it. But it still haunted me enough to discuss surgical foreskin restoration with my wife, about a year after we were married, around 1960 or 1961. She encouraged me to talk to a doctor. But the doctor acted as if I was crazy; he told me that circumcised men do not get penis cancer, and their wives do not get cervical cancer. Of course I believe it, enough to let the pediatrician circumcise our son who was born in 1965. I am so sorry about it now, but I have not had the courage to talk to him about it
I did not know about nonsurgical foreskin restoration until last December, when our daughter gave me a computer with internet access. My poor wive of 50 years is now in the later stages of Alzheimer's, but I know that she would have supported me. So, even if it does not actually matter for our relationship, I do it for her.
Thank you for letting me finally talk about it.

Freddys - This is quite the story. Thank you for sharing it. You were fortunite to escape the Nazi's. Thank you again.

Frankly