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1Taoist
January 9th, 2011, 00:34
Is the dirty secret that married people don't really have sex?

I'm starting to wonder. Most people that are married, even happily, simply don't get to sex, and don't really wanna. They wanna do all manner of things except that.

Is that the dirty truth? The sad, odd truth? And why?

dreammagii
January 9th, 2011, 04:17
Over the past 4 years i have been sleeping with married men, not that i was seeking them out, but i was hurt after a relationship, and married men are a no-risk no-strings-attached sex option, and all of the time when we are lying in bed after a romp, and we get to pillowtalking, im always curious as to why they go looking for sex outside of their marriage.
And their answer is always variations of the same conclusion. They'r sexually bored after a time. They are happy to get love and intimacy and pop out some kids and have a comfortable easy home life together with their wives, but their wives dont sexually appeal to them anymore. Some of them force themselves to sexually perform out of duty and love. After a time, they go hunting elsewhere.
I dont place judgement on them. I know its infidelity. And ive never ever cheated on a partner, but yeah, in a nutshell ... boredom. I dont think monogamy is natural. But i do think it can become conditioned behaviour.

greg_b
January 9th, 2011, 09:48
Is the dirty secret that married people don't really have sex?

I'm starting to wonder. Most people that are married, even happily, simply don't get to sex, and don't really wanna. They wanna do all manner of things except that.

Is that the dirty truth? The sad, odd truth? And why?

This is not the case for me. Of course, I could be the exception to the rule, but I doubt it.

I would re-evaluate your sampling methodology. As you have pointed out on more than one occassion, it is hard to get information on sex and sexual practices from people in a way you can have confidence in.

Regards

1Taoist
January 9th, 2011, 12:34
This is a basic existential question that is also a sociological one. I think our country loves to talk about sex on Opra but simply does not have it. I make my sex life happen but I get into some trouble making it happen, as there is so much to do in life that it won't happen if one doesn't make it happen.

One thing I realize talking to others is that there is this feeling they don't want to make it happen.

1Taoist
January 13th, 2011, 19:33
Case in point, thanks to Sting and Trudie:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504763_162-20028444-10391704.html

wifeandmama
January 14th, 2011, 22:11
I think married people go through times where they don't have sex (like right after the birth of a baby). For me and hubby, if we don't want another child right this second (well, "I" instead of "we"... he wants a million kids, lol), then I tend to put off sex as long as I can, to lessen our chances of condom failure.

Then there was the orgasm thing. I was jealous that hubby could finish every time, easily, while I was still hanging around waiting for my first one ever (never had one by myself or with him or with my ex or anything. Never ever). Until this past weekend. And let's just say that we feel like newlyweds again, lol.

Hubby's parents still have sex on occasion, if my FIL is at a reasonable weight (which hasn't been, lately). But for sure within the past few years, I'm almost certain that they've done it.

My parents, on the other hand...well, I think the last time they did it was when my 27-yr-old sister was conceived. My dad works nights and they don't even sleep in the same room anymore and I can't remember the last time I saw them even kiss. :( It's sad to me, really.

1Taoist
January 18th, 2011, 12:27
This past weekend?? Really??? Why now (of all times)?

How long have you been married? I've read about this, but it still bewilders me. How, and why, haven't you been able to have an O? Why not even by yourself? They say that is the way you practice, but for some reason or other some women refuse to masturbate. I guess.

What brought about this recent breakthru? I was just gonna comment that avoiding sex isn't a good idea with men, but that's beside the point in regards to your inability to orgasm.

Now that you've had one, and you say you feel like newlyweds, this must be a dramatic shift. Beware of this new-found ability going away again as you have built an existence on not having them. Instead of focusing on avoiding sex for procreative fears, focus on developing your orgasmic experience and you can still have sexuality without threat of pregnancy. Get him to go down on you, masturbate you, etc to orgasm and you do the same and maybe there won't be so much single emphasis on intercourse and insemination.

finman
January 18th, 2011, 15:51
Is the dirty secret that married people don't really have sex?

Not true in my case and I have been married a long time.

Mincan
January 18th, 2011, 16:16
I think this forum will be biased in favour of more sex, we are after all the group of men not satisfied with their sexual status and seek to change it, sexual matters matter here.

wifeandmama
January 18th, 2011, 19:52
This past weekend?? Really??? Why now (of all times)?

How long have you been married? I've read about this, but it still bewilders me. How, and why, haven't you been able to have an O? Why not even by yourself? They say that is the way you practice, but for some reason or other some women refuse to masturbate. I guess.

What brought about this recent breakthru? I was just gonna comment that avoiding sex isn't a good idea with men, but that's beside the point in regards to your inability to orgasm.

Now that you've had one, and you say you feel like newlyweds, this must be a dramatic shift. Beware of this new-found ability going away again as you have built an existence on not having them. Instead of focusing on avoiding sex for procreative fears, focus on developing your orgasmic experience and you can still have sexuality without threat of pregnancy. Get him to go down on you, masturbate you, etc to orgasm and you do the same and maybe there won't be so much single emphasis on intercourse and insemination.

So many questions, lol.

I've been married for almost 7 years. I went through three main phases during this journey - 1) the "research" phase, where I and the hubby were actively trying different techniques, 2) the "frustration" phase when all of the research yielded no results, and 3) the "acceptance" phase where I just resigned myself to the idea that this is the way I am and I'll never have one so I just have to learn to live without.

I am not one of those women who "refuses" to masturbate, but I'd probably been doing it wrong on the rare instances that I tried, because I wasn't in the right frame of mind and I might as well have just been touching my arm for all the feelings it didn't give me. I needed the hubby to be the one to touch me, to add the "chemistry" element.

In the past, I'd read/heard two things that a woman had to do to have an O. One was relax. So I'd try so hard to "just relax." But then I read something else that an O is a release of tension, but if I'd just been relaxing the whole time anyway, where was the tension? So now I throw in a bit of tension here and there (a random Kegel, etc.).

The other thing was to clear my mind. Well, that is nearly impossible for ANY woman to do. Stuff is CONSTANTLY on our mind. So instead, I had to focus on the current pleasurable sensations - with emphasis on CURRENT. I couldn't dwell on what may or may not be "just around the corner" or the corner would never come. But if I just kept my mind on the street I was on, then the corner would sneak up on me.

Hubby and I had several discussions about how he needed me to talk to him in the bedroom. I HAD to give him some instructions, but sometimes the "way" I'd give them to him wasn't really effective. But we got into a nice groove and he is so patient, and we take things very slow. I need WAY more time than he does, so he spends a lot of time giving me manual stimulation, then after that, we take care of his needs. :)

And we're probably going to try for another baby in about three months, so I'm not as afraid of a pregnancy now as I was, say, a year ago. lol.

Anyway does that answer all your questions? :p

1Taoist
January 19th, 2011, 01:50
I appreciate your input here. I think it sheds an interesting light on the topic. From several angles, really.

Couple things:

First, all your expressions sound very confused. You sound divorced (sorry) from your libido, yet married to your hubby. You sound like you're very happy and he is too. But you have no relationship with your body.

Your mention of your inability to clear your mind is something to explore. First of all, you don't need to "clear" it, you just need to turn your attention away from the daily stress and toward your mind's libidinous thoughts. This probably sounds alien to you, but you as well sound alien as well, in how difficult the basic connection of sexual stimulus is for you.

This may be one aspect that contributes to married people not having sex.

In your case, it sounds like your hubby is happy and supportive. Here's why, I think: he loves you, and you are a mother to his kids, and he derives safety and security from that. You won't cheat on him, cuz there is a part of you locked away. It's not conscious, and not all men would feel this way, but I'm just thinking that your "lack of function" is his "function", in an odd sense.

Many men are frustrated if they can't please their wife (orgasmically). I would think he would have some feeling of inadequacy. I'm sure you've been thru it and he too has accepted it...but now you say he's got it. In your reply you really didn't address your actual orgasmic breakthru, other than a general hint that you relaxed (but didn't), cleared your mind (which is impossible). You didn't mention at all any of the specific elements that helped you finally experience.

Are you sure you had one?

When you say you didn't masturbate "right", it isn't rocket science. It isn't something you do "right". You either do it (and your body and mind tell you what it wants), or you don't (don't know your body nor your turn-ons). I don't say that as a criticism (if it sounds that way), just as a fact.

Whatever is in your background has contributed to you not allowing yourself to have this release. Figure that out and address it. Also, when your very active mind realizes it has a treasure chest of hidden thoughts and desires, you can haul these out to trigger and push you over the edge. My wife describes the approach of orgasm as a feeling inside her of getting dirtier and dirtier. Then she cums. I think this is probably common among good women. She didn't masturbate until age 28.

In many cases, this sort of lockup (and I say lockup cuz you have all the signs and tools for a great orgasmic life) can tax a marriage and cause a man to get sex elsewhere. We need to reach you, to pleasure you, to feel like we did it (even if we didn't). I'm sure you are lovely and caring, but seven years of no orgasm is a long time.

I think that you could benefit from exploring your erotic triggers and desires. Your tawdriest thoughts. My guess is that's all that's missing. Let your mind wander a bit and it will trigger your body. You don't have to tell anyone your dirty thoughts, just your body. Give yourself to that, and you give yourself to your hubby.

wifeandmama
January 19th, 2011, 10:59
See, there I went, talking for quite a while but still not saying quite enough, lol. I'm going to answer your post nearly line-by-line this time. You do make some good points as well but I definitely missed the mark in some of my post, so I need to clarify some things. :)

I appreciate your input here. I think it sheds an interesting light on the topic. From several angles, really.

Couple things:

First, all your expressions sound very confused. You sound divorced (sorry) from your libido, yet married to your hubby. You sound like you're very happy and he is too. But you have no relationship with your body.

The bolded is probably more true than not true. I could go on and on and explore this fact, but I'll just leave it as I need to get to know myself better. A lot better.

Your mention of your inability to clear your mind is something to explore. First of all, you don't need to "clear" it, you just need to turn your attention away from the daily stress and toward your mind's libidinous thoughts. This probably sounds alien to you, but you as well sound alien as well, in how difficult the basic connection of sexual stimulus is for you.

Right, I agree, and that's what I meant when I said that I think about the "current pleasurable sensations." But I guess I need to elaborate further. I think (and sometimes say out loud) that "yes, hubby, that feels amazing and please DON'T STOP doing that. Keep doing exactly that. "

This may be one aspect that contributes to married people not having sex.

In your case, it sounds like your hubby is happy and supportive. Here's why, I think: he loves you, and you are a mother to his kids, and he derives safety and security from that. You won't cheat on him, cuz there is a part of you locked away. It's not conscious, and not all men would feel this way, but I'm just thinking that your "lack of function" is his "function", in an odd sense.

Yes, this is true. He tried for years to give me an orgasm and wasn't (outwardly) frustrated about it. The orgasm(s) finally happened when we stopped making them the goal, and instead devoted however much time was necessary to MY pleasure, MY needs, MY feelings. It was time for me to be a little selfish.

Many men are frustrated if they can't please their wife (orgasmically). I would think he would have some feeling of inadequacy. I'm sure you've been thru it and he too has accepted it...but now you say he's got it. In your reply you really didn't address your actual orgasmic breakthru, other than a general hint that you relaxed (but didn't), cleared your mind (which is impossible). You didn't mention at all any of the specific elements that helped you finally experience.

Even before I could orgasm, I did not find sex unenjoyable, and assured hubby of this.

As for the specific elements? I don't really know what you mean. I agree that clearing my mind is impossible and I said in my other post that I just re-directed what I was focused on. As for the tension, I need to remember that this is a forum primarily full of men and in general, men don't take hints very well and need to have things in black and white, lol. So, here's our method. Hubby uses his fingers only. No penetration of any kind, no oral, no vibrator. (I'm not saying that we'll never use those, but for now, we're not using those options.) I do start off very relaxed all over, and start thinking about how wonderful my husband is and how excited I get at just his touch. We make sure that there is plenty of lube, either natural or otherwise. If I can directly feel the "rubbing friction" sensation on my clitoris, then there's not enough lube. As I get more and more turned on, I start increasing the tension. Kegels are best (for me) for this, but I'll also contract my butt cheeks or thigh muscles. Whatever feels good. We'll keep doing what feels good, or change a little bit if it doesn't feel as good. Everything we do is about giving me pleasure.

Are you sure you had one?

I am 110% sure that I had one (several, actually, over the course of several days, but no multiples). Over the whole time from start to finish, my heart rate significantly increases, then a bit later the temperature of my skin increases and I have to throw off the covers. Then at the moment of orgasm, everything from the bottom of my ribcage to the top of my knees briefly (but significantly) tenses, then releases, then I feel some small internal contractions. Immediately after, I have to have hubby stop touching my clitoris because it becomes WAY too sensitive. Then, sometimes, I also will have a feeling as if somebody spilled some warm corn syrup in my uterus, which gradually spreads throughout my abdomen. Then I just lay there, all blissful and high and relaxed and energized, all at the same time.

When you say you didn't masturbate "right", it isn't rocket science. It isn't something you do "right". You either do it (and your body and mind tell you what it wants), or you don't (don't know your body nor your turn-ons). I don't say that as a criticism (if it sounds that way), just as a fact.

True.

Whatever is in your background has contributed to you not allowing yourself to have this release. Figure that out and address it. Also, when your very active mind realizes it has a treasure chest of hidden thoughts and desires, you can haul these out to trigger and push you over the edge. My wife describes the approach of orgasm as a feeling inside her of getting dirtier and dirtier. Then she cums. I think this is probably common among good women. She didn't masturbate until age 28.

I've enjoyed a romance novel here and there, but only in my mind and not in my body.

In many cases, this sort of lockup (and I say lockup cuz you have all the signs and tools for a great orgasmic life) can tax a marriage and cause a man to get sex elsewhere. We need to reach you, to pleasure you, to feel like we did it (even if we didn't). I'm sure you are lovely and caring, but seven years of no orgasm is a long time.

Yes, 7 years is a long time. 32 years (which is my current age) is even longer. But the hubby is quite pleased with his new skill. Our new skill, really.

I think that you could benefit from exploring your erotic triggers and desires. Your tawdriest thoughts. My guess is that's all that's missing. Let your mind wander a bit and it will trigger your body. You don't have to tell anyone your dirty thoughts, just your body. Give yourself to that, and you give yourself to your hubby.

I agree. :) It's hard to find the time to myself to do that, though. The kids are young and have unpredictable naps and hubby works long hours and and and. But I agree that there are elements missing in my life that I should be working on.

1Taoist
January 19th, 2011, 19:00
Well, sounds like you're on the way. Few things to consider as you do:

Tension, as you mentioned, manifests from counter-forces which are layered. Erotic triggers appear where there is tension. Nice and lovely is why it takes you so much time and all the conditions must be in place. Dirty and nasty creates immediate tension. This is because it's in immediate opposition to our nice and lovely ideas.

Orgasm is from the buildup of charge. What ends up being our greatest turn-ons are things we literally shouldn't like or are traditionally unacceptable, like a girl masturbating you rather than your hubby, or maybe a man you don't even know. I know, I know, you love your wonderful hubby...but someday you're gonna realize that this isn't the point- you integrate what you shouldn't do or feel with what you do do and feel (love for hubby), and whallah- there's your tension. Could be any number of things, but then general rule of thumb is: if it's wrong, it's right.

Women have all sorts of hidden counter-intuitive, bad girl thoughts and impulses. As I've said to my wife more than a few times "good girls have to learn to let themselves be bad, and bad girls need to learn to be good", whichever is the case. It's tension between the two that must be released. Many girls are too good, and many are too bad, but very few realize they are both, and let themselves be.

If you integrate your "bad" you with your lovely nice you, you'll find orgasm comes easily. Women need to learn to unleash their power, which they instinctively fear cuz it's limitless and increases exponentially without end, and men need to learn to restrain their power, which is limited and they instinctively know is immediately excitable but leaves them as soon as it arrives.

Why people fear their erotic potential is because it is intoxicating. It makes us do what we shouldn't, sometimes. But between husband and wife, all things should be a go as long as there is consent. Many women feel guilty or shame because what turns them on is so unacceptable not to them per say but to societal norms as we know them. People think "if I like this there must be something wrong with me", but what's most often wrong is doing things that expose oneself an open up one's highly personal mystery to the wrong people who aren't going to care for them before, during, or after. If you have a husband who is that, then by definition you can open up and engage your dirtiest and sexiest turn-ons with him and that will allow you to grow. Women often either hide themselves cuz they don't trust men, or they let their freak out with the wrong men (part OF their freak) and get the subsequent guilt and shame.

The erotic is the direct experience of our proper life and our dark life, and they are in direct opposition. If you can use your mind, you don't have to be these things but you can use them to intensify your good feelings about your good life.

How you can find a turn-on is by using the reverse principle- whatever you feel you should do, the opposite will turn you on. When you allow this counter-force to propel you toward your husband, you let go and relax the tension and it transcends everything.

One thing to keep in mind is that if he is the first to do this with you, you are bonded to him by that thing. And he being the only one who has done this may give him a sense of possession of your soul. Some people like this, some can't stand it. It's like the situation where a 30yr old virgin finally decides to give her V card to someone- and it sounds good...until he is stuck with her. Once she gave it up, cuz she waited so long she may have "over-bonded" with simply the taker of it. Not much to do with love but more that intense experiences with one person can be both a good and bad thing; good that you had an intense experience with someone, bad cuz they are the ONLY one. Since variety is the spice of life, this presents a problem. The tendency is to over-attach, which usually comes at the cost of growth, unless one is very resourceful.

Growth is obtained by both- a one among the more. When we have only one experience, we are FORCED to love it; when we have other experience, we have the ability to CHOOSE to love it. The twist is if you have too many others, you lose the ability to choose anything (too many choices), but if you have only one choice...you have no choice. Finding the right number is nuanced and individual, indeed. It is a magic number, and you don't know it usually until you've past it.

I'm going on and on, but you have brought up some great topic. The trick to female erotica is layers, but one of those layers is the forbidden. Find out what is in your forbidden, and you'll have orgasms with hubby easily. And your love for him will be balanced by your love of your own mystery and your own body.

kayla
January 25th, 2011, 22:18
1Taoist, you are awesome. That is all. :-)

1Taoist
January 27th, 2011, 09:47
Thanks, Kayla.