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azmatt
February 22nd, 2011, 22:49
I was just watching the show "Bizarre Foods" on the Travel Channel and the host was in Madagascar. At the very end of the show the host watches a circumcision on a very young boy, and once the foreskin is removed, it is given to the boy's grandfathers, whom proceeded to eat it :eek:. One of them actually eats it from the top of a banana, and I'm sure you can figure out the symbolism of that for yourself.

I sat here watching it in shock as they showed the boy's father over 50 feet away so that he could not hear the boys screams from the tent, where just about the entire village was huddled around and chanting in support for this disgusting religious and cultural tradition of mutilation. It is appalling that his father knew how painful it would be for his son, so he just walked away to let the boy's uncles perform this brutal circumcision on his own son.

The host seemed to keep his cool (although he looked uncomfortable), but said he understands why the father walked away because he would not be able to watch this happen to his son either. I'm not sure exactly what his position is about circumcision, but he said as an outsider or guest, he had to be respectful or their tradition, so it seemed as if he was not a supporter of circumcision, but I am not sure. I was having trouble actually listening to the narration as I watched this whole mutilation take place as the village celebrated, so I may have missed some things.

This honestly is a little difficult for me to even write about as not only was the whole thing quite disturbing, but then when the grandfathers ate the foreskin, I was damn close to seeing my dinner again.

I really don't even know what else to say about what I just saw. Completely disgusted is about all I can say right now. Poor kid....

gayboyncolorado
February 25th, 2011, 17:00
That is absolutely horrible! :eek: It says something about the barbaric nature of circumcision that the father couldn't even watch. If he is going to consent to having his son tortured and mutilated he should have the balls to stand there and watch.

Dasher
February 25th, 2011, 18:23
The obvious inference to be drawn from what happened is that typical fathers do not have the stomach to watch their son's circumcision, and do not have enough balls to intervene to stop it.

admin
February 25th, 2011, 19:47
I guess I forgot to quibble with the characterization of the Travel Channel as being capable of having a "popular" show. :)

INeedAForeskinTransplant
March 15th, 2011, 00:09
I guess I forgot to quibble with the characterization of the Travel Channel as being capable of having a "popular" show. :)

Lol, Ron, you're funny. :D In all seriousness, I actually do like the Travel Channel myself. I would love to visit other parts of the world, but I don't have any money to be able to afford to travel, so the Travel Channel is a way for me to learn about other countries and cultures.

I didn't see this episode, and I count myself lucky that I did not, as it sounds absolutely ghoulish. However, I have seen another episode of the very same show that also hit on this topic. It seems to be a somewhat popular one for the program.

The host of Bizarre Foods is named Andrew Zimmern. He's Jewish, or at least was raised Jewish, according to his comments about his upbringing which he has made on the show. In an episode where he was in China, he actually made a joke about his own circumcision. The irony of this gets even greater when you hear that the joke was in a reference to a waiter carving up a pig he was about to eat.

You can't make this stuff up, guys. :D

In any case, it's my experience that guys who will joke about being circumcised actually are unhappy about it on some level. Not just with circumcision but with all things in life, for males and females, humor is one of the classic ways of covering up pain. That's why, in my opinion anyway, once you've come to terms with something bad, you can take it seriously. Once you're not trying to hide from it, it doesn't need to be a joke anymore.

Just my two cents.

finman
March 15th, 2011, 10:16
he had to be respectful of their tradition

NO you do not; if it is wrong, it is wrong. Many traditions are evil. I really hate that sentiment :mad:

That is absolutely horrible! It says something about the barbaric nature of circumcision that the father couldn't even watch. If he is going to consent to having his son tortured and mutilated he should have the balls to stand there and watch

This is true of all the hospital mutilations, too!!! Where are the parents, hiding away from the screaming, the blood and the brutality when they should be protecting their little child from these sadistic mutilators?

azmatt
March 15th, 2011, 15:33
NO you do not; if it is wrong, it is wrong. Many traditions are evil. I really hate that sentiment :mad:



So you are going to go into a rural village of another country of which you are a guest, and stand up in front of a hundred people that have all had the same thing done to them for the last 1,000 years and shout "Don't touch that boy's foreskin"? I don't think so. That might get you killed, beaten, or circumcised yourself, if you aren't already. He could have walked away, but you still have to be respectful. There is a reason women from western countries don't walk around the streets of Kabul or any other predominant Islamic city in shorts and a T-Shirt. Regardless if you like it or not, that's the way it is and doing otherwise while you are there might not be in your best interest if you value your life, or in this case, your foreskin.

finman
March 15th, 2011, 20:16
Azmatt, that does not mean you have to agree with the tradition.

Also I do not see very much 'respect for our traditions' in the UK by Moslems. Do the women wear shorts and T-shirts to be culturally sensitive to us...generally no. They often cover their head or face, but their men quite happily look at Western women's faces and heads...maybe they should look away.

Also, the first post speaks of bizarre food. The grandfather eating a foreskin must qualify. Perverse.

Saracen_restorer
March 15th, 2011, 21:25
Also I do not see very much 'respect for our traditions' in the UK by Moslems. Do the women wear shorts and T-shirts to be culturally sensitive to us...generally no. They often cover their head or face, but their men quite happily look at Western women's faces and heads...maybe they should look away.

Now now, not all Muslims in the UK are circumcisers or hypocrites. Perhaps you haven't met the progressive types yet, but there's no need to tar all of them with the same brush. I speak as someone who was raised by Muslims and heavily interacted with them both in the UK\abroad since I was a small child.

As for female dress, yes some women persist in wearing full veils, but it's a portion of a 3-4% minority of the populace which isn't exactly what I'd call cultural invasion. Yeah, I'm no fan of the macho attitudes, hardly unique to Muslims though...

azmatt
March 15th, 2011, 21:41
Azmatt, that does not mean you have to agree with the tradition.

Also I do not see very much 'respect for our traditions' in the UK by Moslems. Do the women wear shorts and T-shirts to be culturally sensitive to us...generally no. They often cover their head or face, but their men quite happily look at Western women's faces and heads...maybe they should look away.

Also, the first post speaks of bizarre food. The grandfather eating a foreskin must qualify. Perverse.

I, of course, don't agree with it. I am just saying that you have to respect their tradition, even though it is a horrible one. You don't have to like it nor would I watch it. But you are in their home, and surrounded completely by their culture. You have to be careful about insulting or challenging their tradition in their home. It could be very dangerous for a person. That's all.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
March 15th, 2011, 21:57
I, of course, don't agree with it. I am just saying that you have to respect their tradition, even though it is a horrible one. You don't have to like it nor would I watch it. But you are in their home, and surrounded completely by their culture. You have to be careful about insulting or challenging their tradition in their home. It could be very dangerous for a person. That's all.

You are correct. However, it can be done. Look at what missionaries do. They come in to these places and tell the local populace, with all its ancient traditions and beliefs, “right, now, time to stop worshipping your gods and start worshipping our god”, and true they go along with some of the native traditions, temporarily, to help them adjust to the change, but generally they are actually successful in this audacious endeavor.

admin
March 15th, 2011, 23:48
So you are going to go into a rural village of another country of which you are a guest, and stand up in front of a hundred people that have all had the same thing done to them for the last 1,000 years and shout "Don't touch that boy's foreskin"? I don't think so. That might get you killed, beaten, or circumcised yourself, if you aren't already.

Hanny Lightfoot-Klein did basically that to demand protection for African girls. She changed practices in several places by taking care to figure who all the stakeholders were. The biggest obstacle to ending FGM (or replacing it with a non-damaging ceremony) was finding an alternate way to make a living for the women whose job included cutting the girls. Read her books.

INeedAForeskinTransplant
March 16th, 2011, 12:30
Hanny Lightfoot-Klein did basically that to demand protection for African girls. She changed practices in several places by taking care to figure who all the stakeholders were. The biggest obstacle to ending FGM (or replacing it with a non-damaging ceremony) was finding an alternate way to make a living for the women whose job included cutting the girls. Read her books.

That makes it sound really easy! Why couldn't the same method(s) be applied to stopping MGM, both around the world and here in the US?

Someone mundane
March 17th, 2011, 19:36
That makes it sound really easy! Why couldn't the same method(s) be applied to stopping MGM, both around the world and here in the US?

I would think that's exactly what's already happening... The real world protests, the negative feedback on articles supporting the practice throughout the internet, people complaining to doctors... It all fits in with that goal. People, even if some might argue it's only a minority, are creating a ruckus in North America.

Problem is... Change takes time. It's always been that way. Some people are just too ignorant or arrogant (worse yet, both) and set in their ways to concede to the obvious truth. With the concerns expressed above by several others highlighting a very real aspect of the problem, it takes even longer when the social environment is a repressive rather than progressive one. You would have to spread your dissent to the practice in a way that wouldn't endanger you personally, within your means of course.