stretch marks?

[Distalero]

You know, it just occurred to me, is everyone confusing skin gland (and yes this time "gland" is appropriate ) secretions, which are usually lipid based, with "skin" because the glands () are also microscopic and therefore confused with the what the naked eye sees, ie skin? If this is the case, cut that out .

[tony12345]

I dont think there is any confusion with Sebaceous glands.

Vitamin supplements are good not only for the skin, but for cardiac health as well. The nominal cost for vitamin E, ester-C, fish oil, flaxseed, and others, and the well established data that E and the omega3 fatty acids in fish oil promote healthy arteries provide further reason to use such supplementation and are an important part of a healthy lifestyle.

Dr.Perricone is not selling anything other than his book, the supplements he endorses are commonly available in any supermarket or drugstore. His book is good, but I highly recommend his DVD, which sometimes airs on public television in my area.

After seeing his presentation, I started taking vitamins and supplements on top of my regular daily multi. Since then, my dandruff went away, wintertime nosebleeds from dry air stopped, and I never got stretch marks from many years of bodybuilding/weight training, and I see friends who did, particularily in the pec-delt tie in region.

Can one eat whole foods such as spinach and salmon in place of supplementation? sure, but to eat that in sufficient portions on a daily basis is not my preference.

BTW, anyone who has cooked a piece of chicken skin can easily see the fat that cooks out of skin.

[Distalero]

I could point out the obvious: you're not a chicken, but really your example is perfect. Epidermis (skin), then a layer of fat. They aren't combined, they are distinct tissues. They stick to each other, sure, and to the connective tissue between the two, but because you think reality is on the naked eye level, rather than understanding that we are talking about near and true microscopic level, you think that what you see, you understand, because it looks a certain way. Educate yourself. There is a fascinating world you haven't seen yet. Consider learning about it, particularly if you make blind statements on a forum (they don't have much to do with restoration, but still...). You sound intelligent enough to do this.

If you were "in the business", as it were, you would know that for some time now the vitamin E thing has been refuted. In fact, this substance is now implicated in inter vascular damage, in high doses. You are making statements that sound calm and sure, when in fact you don't have the basic knowledge you need to talk about the subject.

He's not selling anything but his book? Have you visited the website? Are you just jerking chains here? HE isn't selling the products because the stores are? I don't think you're that naive.

Perhaps you think that because you don't know much about the subject, and you are free to say anything on this forum, that I don't know much either. Again, you miss the underlying reality of the situation. You are trying to make statements to a guy who uses knowledge of human A&P clinically, on an everyday basis. I understand that it isn't really fair for me to point out to you the disparity between your "doctor's" website/book, and actual research, because you aren't exposed to actual research results, or use those results as rationale for practice, but if do the reading, you will ratchet up a notch; there's always room on any forum for a little knowledge, and it's always nice to hear from someone who has it. That's why I do what I do here: promote learning.

[Tally]

Originally Posted by Distalero

I understand that it isn't really fair for me to point out to you the disparity between your "doctor's" website/book, and actual research, because you aren't exposed to actual research results, or use those results as rationale for practice, but if do the reading, you will ratchet up a notch; there's always room on any forum for a little knowledge, and it's always nice to hear from someone who has it. That's why I do what I do here: promote learning.

I am not in the business and I am willing to learn. It has been many years since I last read up on vitamins and supplements that aid health in general and skin health in particular.

Many on the web who dis the Perricone books are also promoting their own products/philosophy/whatever. In fact, almost everyone on the Internet is selling something. I don't trust any of it.

Now that I said that I don't trust anyone, can you recommend a book that is suitable for someone who is not "in the business"? Or possibly a website that offers suitable books? I am not looking for a "health guide for dummies."

Based on your postings, I would be inclined to consider your opinion credible. No offense intended, I am just a doubting Thomas.

[Distalero]

I personally much prefer a thousand doubting Thomas'; it's a good position to take when you realize you don't know as much as you should about a subject. I'm one frequently. It's restoration, after all, and a building of a number of things, not just a skin tube.

Go into any local community college, JC, what have you; go to the Health Sciences section, buy the text for the Nutrition class they are sure to offer. Big book, lots of stuff to learn (including vitamins and minerals), but if you read it, or at least use it as a resource, you will never be conned by all the unproven (and downright bogus) nonsense out there. The text will be based on human physiology, a little chemistry, and the best kind refer to some clinical conditions: far more accurate and comprehensive than any book from the popular press.

You'll learn many things; as an example, the fact that one vitamin absolutely critical to your daily existence, is made primarily by bacteria living in your gut. You will learn what isn't safe to take in large doses. You'll learn to spot the con job products out there, based on bogus "facts" the just don't actually exist. You'll learn what is long standing, established knowledge, so that you can reflect against that all the crap theory out there, designed to separate you from your wallet, and potentially from your health. Depending on how susceptible you or your loved ones are to advertising, you and they will become stronger, more knowledgeable. You might even be inclined to buy a text on anatomy and physiology, use that as a resource.

Most folks run from school first chance they get, but your education is ongoing, and if you majored in something apart from bio science or medicine, now's the time to add to your total knowledge.

[Tally]

Originally Posted by Distalero

Go into any local community college, JC, what have you; go to the Health Sciences section, buy the text for the Nutrition class they are sure to offer.

Duh! Thanks for pointing out what I should have known. Sometimes I forget that there is a world outside the Internet.

There is a major university in town. I'm going to check out the bookstore. Thanks for the tip.

[tony12345]

Originally Posted by Distalero

.

If you were "in the business", as it were, you would know that for some time now the vitamin E thing has been refuted. In fact, this substance is now implicated in inter vascular damage, in high doses.

1. All of my posts refer to moderate doses. A high dose of anything is no good including asprin. 400 units of vitamin e doesn't constitute a high dose.

You are making statements that sound calm and sure, when in fact you don't have the basic knowledge you need to talk about the subject.

My wife is a PA in a highly regarded cardiac care unit of a large NYC hospital. Stents and bypasses are her daily business. Her prior career was a nutritionist. The doctors there do recommend E and omega 3's, but these are not to be construed as a panacea for an unhealthy lifestyle. The only contra-indication for Vitamin E is if a patient is on certain medications.

He's not selling anything but his book? Have you visited the website? Are you just jerking chains here? HE isn't selling the products because the stores are? I don't think you're that naive.

Vitamin E, fish oil, ester-C, and other supplements are available on any supermarket shelf and with the supermarket brand. You know that already so whose chain are you jerking? All of the supplements Perricone recommends are generic. If one chooses to buy them from his website, thats your choice. I hardly think there is any conflict of interest.

Perhaps you think that because you don't know much about the subject, and you are free to say anything on this forum, that I don't know much either.

Well you never mentioned your credentials other than vague references of a clinical something or another, are you an MD and what school?

actual research, because you aren't exposed to actual research results, or use those results as rationale for practice, but if do the reading, you will ratchet up a notch;

If you want to footnote your posts with actual trial studies or research, feel free to list them here, otherwise you haven't provided any references to backup your claims.

there's always room on any forum for a little knowledge, and it's always nice to hear from someone who has it. That's why I do what I do here: promote learning.

Internet forums are about a free exchange of ideas. Unfortunately there are some, such as yourself, who feel obligated to denigrate any other person whose ideas don't conform to their interpretion. Who appointed you the Net-Nazi? Any suggestions posted on a forum may be only worth what you paid for them, and I think any rational websurfer knows that already. It's up to each person to do their homework and decide what works for them. I am only mentioning my past experiences, and what has worked for me, in a humble effort to help others .

[Distalero]

I only jump on statements like skin is "fatty tissue", the proof of which you base on removing chicken skin from chicken meat . Otherwise I have no particular input for any specific nutritional practice, unless it's something silly, like the above, or counterpoint to the commercial nonsense if it is nonsense. Net Nazi? If this is your definition then I can get up and goose step a little, but my post content will always point towards freeing yourself from my iron rule. That's why I suggest using a college text on nutrition.

I have consulted with a malpractice attorney about citing my license and background; his suggestion is to hush up, lest someone misunderstand something I've posted, fall over and die ; that would cause me personal pain and his estate a leg up in this sue-happy culture.

There is research-citing aplenty in the texts I always suggest. Real knowledge takes a little more effort than drive-through articles, but not a lot more, and if you've done it yourself, it has a lot more personal meaning. I'm sure you have that effort in you. Question is, do you have the interest.

There is debate about the real effect of fish oil due to contradictory studies, but you notice I didn't refer to it specifically. Vitamin E is a different kettle of fish, oily or not. I would suggest that you, or whomever, do a little more reading about it. I wouldn't say what I said without having read ongoing studies. Ancillary therapy comes and goes based on continuing research, sometimes pretty rapidly. Nazis insist on holding on to a view somewhere in that continuum. I suggest learning the basics and stay abreast of the issues that interest you because some of the current detail will change. But rarely the basics.

[Distalero]

Originally Posted by Tally

Duh! Thanks for pointing out what I should have known. Sometimes I forget that there is a world outside the Internet.

There is a major university in town. I'm going to check out the bookstore. Thanks for the tip.

You're very welcome; everybody forgets textbooks, but they have to pass some fairly rigorous scrutiny, so the authors keep to the proven I hope this opens a world of interesting information for you. A good text on nutrition will touch on a number of different disciplines, all of which I find very interesting.

A text on anatomy and physiology will be chewier, but kept as a reference it will be useful for all the usual situations, and perhaps when you least expect it to be.

[tony12345]

I only jump on statements like skin is "fatty tissue", the proof of which you base on removing chicken skin from chicken meat .

This is a red herring you throw out. I brought up chicken skin as an example. My proof was the based on what a highly regarded dermatologist MD has written about.

Now I will quote a reference regarding the composition of skin cells:

The [skin] cell plasma membrane is a lipid bilayer:two thin layers of fat sandwiched together. Perricone Prescription, Perricone MD page 23.

The [skin] cell plasma membrane is a fatty environment composed of two layers of phospholipids. In order for antioxidants to penetrate this fatty shield, they must be fat soluble.Perricone Prescription, Perricone MD page 25.

Perricone also footnotes over 20 pages of clinical studies and references in his book.

That's why I suggest using a college text on nutrition.

Another red herring, one needs student ID to access a college library. If you want to prove your point in a debate, it is your task to provide the backup. Cite some references that show skin cells are not comprised of fatty acids, otherwise stop challenging those who do.

You try to prove your points with puts downs and circular arguments - circulus in probando. I'm sure you are a highly regarded Doc somebody who is a medical expert but cant say what kind under his lawyers advice all the while taking time from his busy patient roster posting about foreskin restoration. Ah huh.