stretch marks?

[Distalero]

Seriously, you need to stop in a college bookstore, pick up the current A&P text being used, turn to The Integumentary System, and learn. Really, it's just that simple. By all means begin with cell structure (so many different types; fascinating), but then go on to discover the difference between "skin" and "fat". You will be amazed. You be exposed to formal classification, tissue formation and function. The references to epidermis will have nothing to do with a bucket of the Colonel's finest. The information will be science based, not biased towards a commercial agenda. There are more books than just this little book you quote from. Go to the source.

I know that you think you know (you are putting so much effort in this), but if you do what I'm suggesting, you will find out that you don't. No amount of bold font changes this fact. Just for a little while go beyond the little book, read the big book. You'll benefit. Do it for no other reason than to prove me wrong.

I wasn't going to suggest this, because Distalero in no way wants to be a party to potential marital strife, but if your wife is truly a PA, show her what I've written in the thread. I would imagine she still has HER A&P text, which you can begin to read; you don't even have to go to the local college bookstore. At some point she has taken tests on these basics. I have taken tests in most of it; long, rigorous, exacting tests, where the proctor plunks down substances and structures, and slides of substances and structures, in front of me, to identify by plain sight and through a microscope. You don't soon forget things when you've done this. Just think, you have the benefit of the information without the stress of having to answer for your understanding of it.

I throw these pixels out here more for you than me; I've done mine, and I do mine (my profession demands continuing education).

Go benefit.

[1Taoist]

There's that "mystery profession" again. But I gotta say, Distalero, your talent seems to lie in the area of prose, where your songs about biology neither need nor benefit from being correct. The roasting you do to make a point generally obscures any facts tucked away inside this mind-numbing scientific exhibition, which leaves us all with the feeling that the board of directors at the Bio-tech Lab where you work have somehow overlooked your genius. Your attorney is right- your moonlighting as a A&P professor might get Donald Rumsfeld mad. And you know go HE gets when you're out there disseminating recovered Nazi secrets to human biology.

[NaturalMikeSoon]

Ok guys, while the "debate" was "fun" to read, I think the skins are getting thin (pun intended!).

I believe, or at least hope, the solution is simple. I think you might be using the term skin from two different view points - lay and clinical.

Below is an excerpt from one of my old texts, with cited reference below. Given what you have both said, it could be said that, depending on your vantage, you are both correct.

From years ago, and I think this reference agrees with my old understanding. The subq (subcutaneous) layer does contain fat. The epidermis and dermis do not.

The subq layer is always presented with the description of the makeup of the integumentary system; thus I believe the common belief that it is part of the skin. Technically, the subq is not part of the skin. However, the majority of individuals not trained in biology or anatomy would not, and do not, make this distinction.

Now, I hope you can both come to the center of the ring, shake hands, and then go back to your corners, pull on your penis and grow long foreskins ...living long, happy lives with self-restored genitalia.


Natural Mike Soon




Here's the excerpt (sorry the diagram wouldn't copy and paste):


Structures
The epidermis is the outermost layer of the skin. The dermis, the second skin layer, contains collagen bundles and supports the nerve and vascular network. The subcutaneous layer is composed primarily of fat and loose connective tissue.
Epidermis
The epidermis, the thin avascular superficial layer of the skin, is made up of an outer dead cornified portion that serves as a protective barrier and a deeper, living portion that folds into the dermis. Together these layers measure 0.05 to 0.1 mm in thickness. The epidermis is nourished by blood vessels in the dermis. The epidermis is replaced with new cells every 28 days. The two major types of epidermal cells are the melanocytes (5%) and the keratinocytes (90%).1
Melanocytes are contained in the deep, basal layer (stratum germinativum) of the epidermis. They contain melanin, a pigment that gives color to the skin and hair and protects the body from damaging ultraviolet (UV) sunlight. Sunlight and hormones stimulate the melanosome (within the melanocyte) to produce melanin.The wide range of skin color is caused by the amount of melanin produced; more melanin results in darker skin color.2
FIG. 23-1 Microscopic view of the skin in longitudinal section.

Keratinocytes are synthesized from epidermal cells in the basal layer. Initially these cells are undifferentiated. As they mature (keratinize) they move to the surface where they flatten and die to form the outer skin layer (stratum corneum). Keratinocytes produce a fibrous protein, keratin, which is vital to the protective barrier function of the skin. The upward movement of keratinocytes from the basement membrane to the stratum corneum takes approximately 4 weeks. If dead cells slough off too rapidly, the skin will appear thin and eroded. If new cells form faster than old cells are shed, the skin becomes scaly and thickened. Changes in this cell cycle account for many skin problems, such as psoriasis.
Dermis
The dermis is the connective tissue below the epidermis. Dermal thickness varies from 1 to 4 mm. The dermis is highly vascular and assists in body temperature and blood pressure regulation.
The dermis is divided into two layers, an upper thin papillary layer and a deeper, thicker reticular layer. The papillary layer is folded into ridges, or papillae, which extend into the upper epidermal layer. These exposed surface ridges form congenital patterns called fingerprints and footprints. The reticular layer contains collagen and elastic and reticular fibers.
Collagen forms the greatest part of the dermis and is responsible for the mechanical strength of the skin. The primary cell type in the dermis is the fibroblast. Fibroblasts produce collagen and elastin fibers and are important in wound healing. Nerves, lymphatic vessels, hair follicles, and sebaceous glands are also found in the dermis.
Subcutaneous Tissue
The subcutaneous tissue lies below the dermis and is not part of the skin. The subcutaneous tissue is often discussed with the skin because it attaches the skin to underlying tissues such as the muscle and bone. The subcutaneous tissue contains loose connective tissue and fat cells that provide insulation. The anatomic distribution of subcutaneous tissue varies according to gender, heredity, age, and nutritional status. This layer also stores lipids, regulates temperature, and provides shock absorption.
Skin Appendages
Appendages of the skin include the hair, nails, and glands (sebaceous, apocrine, and eccrine). These structures develop from the epidermal layer and receive nutrients, electrolytes, and fluids from the dermis. Hair and nails form from specialized keratin that becomes hardened.
Hair grows on most of the body except for the lips, the palms of the hands, and the soles of the feet.3 The color of the hair is a result of heredity and is determined by the type and amount of melanin in the hair shaft. Hair grows approximately 1 cm per month. On average 100 hairs are lost each day; the rate of growth is not affected by cutting.2 Baldness results when lost hair is not replaced. This absence of hair may be disease or treatment related or due to heredity, particularly in men.
Nails grow from the matrix. The matrix is commonly called the lunula, which is the white crescent-shaped area visible through the nail plate (Fig. 23-2). The nail plate adheres to and is supported by the nail bed. The cuticle is part of the skin that extends a small distance on the nail plate before being shed (like the stratum corneum). Fingernails grow at a rate of 0.7 to 0.84 mm per week, with toenail growth 30% to 50% slower. Nails can be injured by direct trauma. A lost fingernail usually regenerates in 3 to 6 months, whereas a lost toenail may require 12 months or more for regeneration. Nail growth may vary according to the person's age and health. Nail color ranges from pink to yellow or brown depending on skin color. Pigmented longitudinal bands (melanonychea striata) may commonly occur in the nail bed in approximately 90% or more of all people with dark skin (Fig. 23-3).



Lewis, S.L., Heitkemper, M.M, Dirksen, S.R., O’Brien, P.G., & Bucher, L. (2007). Medical surgical nursing: assessment and management of clinical problems(Vol.1.), (7th ed.).St. Louis, MO: Mosby Elsevier.

[Distalero]

Hehe Look what's started, actual (ugh) learning. We'll never be the same! The humanity of it all .

You can't see this right now but we're all celebrating by dancing the bavarian polka, here in the bunker. Painful, though, 'cause my partner is Nordic Solvig, tall statuesque blond, 6'3'', great rack but outweighs me by 40 pounds. Guess who's leading