Making others feel grief

[swordofpeace]

Hello all.

I keep a running thread of my grief thoughts under the title "depression" Anything I have to say about my personal process would go there. This thread I want to be about making others feel grief for what they did. What do you think of that? Do you think it is healthy or unhealthy, necessary or optional? I think it may be necessary, for the sanity of civilization.

I think it is wrong to spare one's parents for the sake of being a 'good little boy'. I think it's wrong to spare any human their grief and guilt because it becomes toxic, and unhealthy for the whole system, and keeps it perpetuating.

Like when we confront our parents, and they are sad, but then they try to minimize it. I always liked to study psychology because I was interested. I learned about concepts like, minimization, invalidation, trauma. In the past I would pull these words out, and I would even use them correctly, but they were still just words for me. Now they are realities, and invalidation or minimization becomes like a re-traumatization, if we keep stock in a person

We can't make anyone feel anything, nor should we try. That's true for guilt, shame, grief, etc; We may, however, give them the facts, give them the knowledge, including the knowledge of our internal state and our true deep feelings, which might induce them to feel grief. That's just being honest and being direct, which are qualities of MEN. I understand in human relations, tact and grace are sometimes important essential elements, but there are certainly limits and situations. I don't know how necessary it is to show tact to someone who had your genitals surgically "reduced" on your birthday. Or who raped you for that matter, even if they later took great care of you. Secondly, even in more healthy scenarios, I don't think it's the child's job to care for the parent. I think that's toxic role reversal.

I think others need to feel a good (full) does of our grief. I think anything else is toxic "collusion". What do you think? All we can do, and all we need to do is share the facts, the knowledge, our feelings, and 'prophecy' maybe, and we don't need to be too concerned with form and tact or what they do with the information. We can use timing and tact if we like, but I think we are under no moral obligation to do so, unless the spirit calls us. What do you think? I myself give them a chance to be humble and repentant, and then when they refuse, I go into a sort of messenger mode, where I warn them of judgement and where I really try to provoke them, by bringing up grievances in my childhood or whatnot. I find that really helpful to air the sheets anyway and break away.

But I think we cannot spare society grief. It is not only us who needs to grieve. We need to grieve but then everyone must grieve. "And they will look on those they pierced and will mourn". I think we really need to open this process up. I think it's time we turn the heat up, friends, to all and every. I think it's time we give them no excuse for denial

Comments?

[AnonL]

I have a desire to make others feel the grief that I bear and acknowledge what they did to me. Just feels unfair that the victim alone must hide their pain, much like before how when women were raped they were shamed into silence. Sometimes I feel really deep resentment to the people around me... like there is this giant thing between us that blocks out any other good we might share.

[swordofpeace]

Originally Posted by lately

I have a desire to make others feel the grief that I bear and acknowledge what they did to me. Just feels unfair that the victim alone must hide their pain, much like before how when women were raped they were shamed into silence. Sometimes I feel really deep resentment to the people around me... like there is this giant thing between us that blocks out any other good we might share.

Yeah I know what you mean. It's like no matter how many good things we could relate to each other about, this issue comes in the way every time. It is not our fault for creating it. They sowed, they must reap. When they try to avoid it or minimize it, they are trying to avoid the grief that they brought about and it just makes us distance ourselves and turn from them. That's an area I want to think about more. I am starting a process of turning from my mother. I mean I have always been doing this but it's heating up and getting overt. I am divorcing them

People don't always respond to light. You need to give them heat. You need to protect yourself.

I said we can never make someone feel emotions. We can want them to feel them but that's their business. We can only witness to the truth and we can only remind them of things they are trying to forget. That's not only our right. in my opinion it's our duty as well.

[EliteDoomer]

I've recently come to find out that the expression of feelings is part of the healing/adapting process. By telling the truth we may upset others but to hold it inside we will DEFINITELY hurt ourselves.

It is hard to communicate civilly in this subject, at least I find, but it is still worth it in the long run for us, those we care about and humanity.

I for one will not suffer in silence.
My pain was and is real.

[swordofpeace]

Yes that's true, to express one's pain is necessary and not to suffer in silence. This goes along with the notions in psychology that we must not spare or protect our parents. That is aborted grief and results in re-traumatization or perpetuation of trauma, and therefore dissociated state

Ok, so I think they need to feel grief for the sake of culture, for the sake of breaking the vicious cycles. that's the only way to prevent inter-generational traumas. Even if they won't have any more sons, they can advise others in society as elders. So they need to feel a cutting grief. I think since what they did had a deep and permanent effect, their grief should be deep and permanent. it's up to them. I find though that their denial is invalidation of my pain. Maybe this doesn't apply as much person to person as adults. Like if an intact European person invalidates me, who wouldn't know any different, it's not as big of a deal, but when it's one's parents, who we have a right to be 'childish' around.. another story

Anyway the more they avoid the issue the more I am compelled to express myself. So we can look at it from a point of view of compulsion. My grief compels me to act, and become an intactivist, in all of society. My moral duty as well.

I was just wondering- if everyone suddenly got depressed in America, the war effort would probably stop. Aggression and depression do not go hand in hand, don't you agree?

Some people return violence for violence, like the Joker in Dark Knight. Well I am against that but I understand it. But when society creates deformity or mutilation, there is nothing wrong and in fact much right for exposing it up to their light, crashing the party so to speak, killing their 'joy' which is no real joy at all. I try to get it spoken of with the pastors,in church. As spiritual leaders, certainly they have a responsibility. But no they stonewall. Because they are also traumatized. I learned how trauma prevents one from being able to feel, until one deals with it through grief. Maybe the grief of the parents, the mother also blocks them. I read an article on how it's always the mother who gets the blame, and is the main object of anger, when a man was circ-ed as an infant. It makes sense, she failed to protect him when she was his entire world. Maybe she feels grief for what she did and maybe this grief also breaks the mother child bond. In other words, the M-C bond is not only broken from the male withdrawal, but the mother withdrawal as well, from guilt. Just a thought

I think all around the board, we have to go about expressing ourselves. I feel that anyway. I want society to see and know. Even in German society where I am headed, and which doesn't do this- I want them to know what is done on American soil so they can understand the world better. We are all connected, and my grief must become their grief. That's what I feel deep down. Especially my parents, especially medical and religious and social leaders, especially intimate partners and close family, and then the rest of society as well. Anything else is just emotional isolation

Thank you