A Deathblow to Denial

[airpud]

Denial is one thing. Ignorance is another. Americans are still in the ignorance stage. The next step up on the ladder is denial.

But there is a more important issue, and that is whether or not Americans (male AND female) deserve their foreskins.

And yesterday something struck me as wonderfully simple. I don't know how I missed it before.

"Americans don't deserve their foreskins because they cut foreskins."

or

"Because Americans (and whichever other groups) cut their foreskins, they don't deserve them."

In a sense, Americans themselves KNOW they don't deserve them, so that's really why they do it. After all, if they thought they deserved them as a collective, they wouldn't cut them.

[swordofpeace]

I appreciate what everybody has said here. All the psychology which I have ever studied becomes real in this issue, not just a game.

This is a very powerful thread.

All of this is very well written and inspiring. I wish I had the courage to face my shame and speak out. Unfortunately I become completely inarticulate when trying to talk about MGM because I feel defensive, angry, and somehow violated. My malice really comes out and it just hurts the cause because people close their ears when they feel attacked. And I literally do feel like attacking them, for their indifference and nonchalance to the fact that I was tortured and am mutilated for life. It makes me want to kill some times.

For the sake of everybody, you need to deal with your toxic shame. There are books on it, for example John Bradshaw, Healing the Shame that Binds you (also on youtube).

"Americans don't deserve their foreskins because they cut foreskins."

I always think this way, that people deserve what they've gotten. But foreskins are not restorable and the children don't deserve them. I didn't deserve this. When my dad was a baby he didn't deserve to have his foreskin cut. His dad was probably intact, so his dad should have lost his foreskin. But when my dad had mine cut off, he probably suddenly deserved to not have his. But I haven't cut anyone's off, so how is it that I deserve this? The problem is that you are speaking of Americans as if they are all guilty of something, every single one of them.

"An California Blonde - who has discovered uncircumcised men (after wasting 26 years on circ'ed men) and will never go back!"

Funny how this narcissist cares so much about human rights or men for that matter. I think she should be forced to only be with circumcised men as penance for her narcissism, and esp if she had her son circ'ed at one point, or doesn't see the hypocrisy. All we get is abandonment from narcissistic women (all feminists, and self-proclaimed 'sluts') which shows where their hearts lie. It is with the flesh and not with the spirit.

I feel proud that women 'wasted' time on me. I feel so appreciated. I feel so understood and loved and accepted.

For first they rejected my foreskin, because they didn't approve of it
Then they rejected me because I didn't have any foreskin
And I think to myself what a wonderful world

Therefore, circumcised men are by and large contributing to the persistence of circumcision while intact men are by and large coy about what they have, fostering that persistence.

I pretty much agree with that statement. I'm going to Germany and I am going to be telling the story to everybody. I am actually only starting to speak out. I will continue talking about this until I die, with everyone I meet no matter what. it's a prophet's job to show people the truth of things, and even if they are not a part of it, we are all connected and they need to know and understand. Everyone must face the ugly truth, esp since we do it for women.

Generally only when they [women] come into that realization [sexual diminishment] do they take issue with MGM, sometimes not even then.

Yeah that is typical of a narcissist. I am just brutally honest

Deal with your grief and shame people, and speak out. I love that 16yo mother. she's from a 'lower class' than mine and yet I hate my mother and prefer her a million times over. she's amazing and caring and everything a mother should be at heart, unlike my iceberg narcissist

Peace be with you

[airpud]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

"It is illegal to cut out your genital tissue and toss it in the trash."

Lots of things are illegal.

Uhm, people should know the difference between right and wrong. They don't.

They steal the foreskins and sell them to ego-monsters who use it in face cream. The world is a stupid joke.

But accept it. Some don't accept it. They say:

"I can cut up animals and I can have other people cut up animals for me so I can eat their bodies. But I don't deserve to have my body cut up."

"I didn't / don't deserve this."

"I don't accept my karma."

"I don't believe in cause and effect."

Are there any numbers available so we can make a correlation between circumcision and breast cancer?

People in China don't do circ. They also don't even know what breast cancer is. Am I grasping?

[airpud]

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Say it loud and clear."

Say nothing. Action trumps everything. Talking = not doing. Talk is cheap. Anybody out there talking? Well I'm not listening. I might not like Enzo's style, but at least he's trying to DO something.

Oh, you REALLY want to communicate your idea? Then DO something.

No more creepy "letters to your circumcisers" etc.

Grow a pair.

And I don't mean to come off as arrogant or disrespectful. I'm on your side.

Let's all grow a pair - me included.

[random1]

How about alot of people have signs and come in a hospital near a surgery with the newborn babies and then wave your signs?

Nah that sounds stupid.

[swordofpeace]

I think- and this is my style, that the biggest way we can make a difference is starting with the people we already know, in our circle of friends and family, speak out and at least let them know where we stand. It's not our job to convince anybody to believe something but at the end of the day if they know exactly what I believe and why I believe it, because I have been a good messenger, then I am content, and they will suffer reward or judgement for their behavior. Also how we can make a difference is talking to those who are nearing term, or even who just got married. Or who are young and someday want to get married. I find the people who don't have a stake in the argument (young single women, intact men) to be the most open and rational. My sister is on my side now, newly married, sickened and horrified, one of the few of all the many people I contacted who even responded. The other's will suffer judgement. For men I try to get them to face their grief. If they can't face their grief, they can't receive new knowledge. I think this is also true of female accomplices to the crime-i.e. mothers. New wine requires new wineskins-i.e. circumcision of the heart, grief

Then my next strategy is that the few who I have converted or enlightened I want to encourage to go out and make other disciples or converts. This is the way I can be most effective. I sow seeds elsewhere, on blogs, etc. But what can I do? My day is full already. I hope I'm doing enough. I think we have to walk plus talk. We must be totally willing to confront powerful figures. I look forward to the chance to speak to doctors confrontationally, but I'm not in the US now. we have to make them know that they are guilty, and that other people know, or that God sees. Those who are passive are also guilty, esp yeah if they speak up for the animals. Knowing about circ and not speaking up against it but doing so for animals or environment, they judge themselves

peace be with you


Gerald

[airpud]

Originally Posted by random1

How about alot of people have signs and come in a hospital near a surgery with the newborn babies and then wave your signs?

Nah that sounds stupid.

Words are words. Whether generated by the vocal chords or written on a piece of paper.

Why communicate WITH the enemy? The enemy should be FORCED or leveraged.

"Hey thief, would you please stop stealing my car?"

Words are seriously pathetic. But then again, my posting is made up of.... uhm, well, WORDS actually.

I'm stuck in Samsara!

[swordofpeace]

words are not pathetic when spoken to an expectant mother or a grieving father. When spoken against the system, yeah they are weak but then this has always been the case. Again I suggest we make a difference primarily in our circles. we each have a circle. You have a circle, I have a circle, everyone here has a circle, and we encourage them to also make new converts. That's what grassroots is about. And words are weak at changing things on high but you never know. Sometimes even doctors reconsider. We have to give them the chance. At the very least, words will remove from then the excuses they make so they're open to judgement if you believe in that. I'm not a revolutionary in the sense of overthrowing the state by force

[airpud]

Originally Posted by swordofpeace

words are not pathetic when spoken to an expectant mother or a grieving father. When spoken against the system, yeah they are weak but then this has always been the case. Again I suggest we make a difference primarily in our circles. we each have a circle. You have a circle, I have a circle, everyone here has a circle, and we encourage them to also make new converts. That's what grassroots is about. And words are weak at changing things on high but you never know. Sometimes even doctors reconsider. We have to give them the chance. At the very least, words will remove from then the excuses they make so they're open to judgement if you believe in that. I'm not a revolutionary in the sense of overthrowing the state by force

True. Grassroots is powerful. Bottom up change.

I think the internet (access to information) is the beginning of the end of circ.