Any muslim around here?

[MJOLNIR]

Originally Posted by airpud

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconcep...cumcision.html

An Arabic link but it is mostly just an image.

http://www.quranicpath.com/misconcep...by_arabic.html

There are some notes in Arabic there but most of the page is in English.

Il y a des notes en arabe mais le plupart de la page est en anglais.

Everybody knows that the Quran doesnt allow circumcision. I think some Muslims are confused, and think somehow a (wrong) Hadith is above the Quran, which is illogical. Logically, anyone who takes a Hadith over what the Quran basically says that the Quran is not complete. And logically that would make that Muslim a fake Muslim.

I would think that the Quran has everything a Muslim needs. Why are people accepting Hadiths which are against what the Quran says?

Simply put, it's because they, without knowing, actually devote their worship and fear to their religious leaders, if not also to God (which practice-wise is idol worship), just like devout Christians and Jews. It's also for the sense of security. They don't want to be labeled outcasts by the Islamic mainstream. They'd rather be part of the millions of sheep-minded people, even though when you want to talk numbers, Muslims aren't even 1/5 of the world population.

To accept only the one god is to shut out everyone else's words and do that which you think the god would want you to do. That's the test, not to blind-follow whatever you're born in especially when the Quran condemns such practice.

With that said, I think I'm going to chill off "grief" forums for a while and stop thinking and reading about my mutilation day & night. It does nothing to help. In the back of my mind I know that foreskin-restoring is the best thing for my mind now and yet I haven't even started on the thing yet, lol. Well I love you all (like seriously...no homo though, since I'm hetero xD) and wish to God circumcision isn't affecting you as much as me physically and mentally.

...




Bye. *waves*

[teen restore]

MJOLNIR
You have Justified yourself so well that I am amazed. Your ever single word Made sense and I agree with every single thing you said. I feel the same about how corrupted things have become. Please Stay in touch with me I am also muslim so>

[MJOLNIR]

Thanks. Some things are just obvious right? There's no way that a just and merciful god would ordain the barbarity that is circumcision, stoning to death for adultery, and killing due to leaving a religion (which makes no sense since you could go back to believing the next week, which the Quran says is ok). I've already posted Quranic evidence that circumcision is anti-God, there are verses showing that there shouldn't be religious persecution (let alone killing for simply not believing) and this stoning for adultery crap can be found nowhere in the Quran. It however is in a corrupted Christian bible and corrupted Judaism, which the Quran mentions was corrupted and the reason the Quran came down to clarify what was from God. The hadith books and sunna has almost all the false crap from Christianity and Judaism, which is why you see so many similarities between Muslims and Jews, and Muslims and devout Christians. Many of these aren't from God as many Muslims believe.

Not one Muslim I've come across who's done any rational thought or truth-searching ever accepted that mainstream Islam doesn't have falsehood and corruption in it. Only those who blind-follow and put their complete trust in the religious leaders (imams, and the people running the religion in Saudi Arabia and so forth) are brainwashed to think otherwise. They're relying on and putting their trust in these people and not their creator.

[admin]

Originally Posted by MJOLNIR

a corrupted Christian bible and corrupted Judaism, which the Quran mentions was corrupted and the reason the Quran came down to clarify what was from God.

Can you give Qur'anic citations for this idea of the old books being corrupt? Because while the Qur'an says nothing of genital cutting, Muslims sometimes respond to me that the Qur'an references back to the old stories of Abraham so that's why Muslims must cut.

Originally Posted by MJOLNIR

The hadith books and sunna has almost all the false crap from Christianity and Judaism. . . .

Not one Muslim I've come across who's done any rational thought or truth-searching ever accepted that mainstream Islam doesn't have falsehood and corruption in it. .

This seems so obvious to me. The Qur'an could be accepted as the final revealed word of Allah even if the man-made (possibly politically motivated) interpretations that follow are rejected. Are any of the supposed sources for Sunnah and Hadith revered to the level of prophet? They are fallible men.

-Ron

[MJOLNIR]

Originally Posted by admin

Can you give Qur'anic citations for this idea of the old books being corrupt? Because while the Qur'an says nothing of genital cutting, Muslims sometimes respond to me that the Qur'an references back to the old stories of Abraham so that's why Muslims must cut.


This seems so obvious to me. The Qur'an could be accepted as the final revealed word of Allah even if the man-made (possibly politically motivated) interpretations that follow are rejected. Are any of the supposed sources for Sunnah and Hadith revered to the level of prophet? They are fallible men.

-Ron

Well as I was looking for verses against mainstream Christianity, I came across a set that had both Jews and Christians mentioned:

9:30 The Jews said: "Ezra is the son of God," and the Nazarenes said: "The Messiah is the son of God." Such is their utterances with their mouths, they imitate the sayings of those who rejected before them. God will fight them. They are deluded from the truth!

9:31 They have taken their Priests and Monks to be patrons besides God, and the Messiah, son of Mary, while they were only commanded to serve One god, there is no god except He, be He glorified against what they set up.

9:32 They want to extinguish the light of God with their mouths, but God refuses such and lets His light continue, even if the rejecters hate it.

9:33 He is the One who has sent His messenger with the guidance and the system of truth, so that it will expose all other systems, even if the polytheists hate it.


In some places in the Bible it's said Jesus is God's son. What I also meant by corrupted is that it has in it teachings God condemns. The criterion for killing another for example is listed in the Quran, a life for a life. Nowhere does it allow the killing of someone for committing adultery (the criterion it lists for that at the time was lashings...makes sense to lash than end a life for having illegit sex, wouldn't one think?), and the Bible mandates death by stoning for that. Quran also calls itself a confirmation of every teaching from God from the past, so since there are things in the Bible (which is supposed to be word of God) not in the Quran then it's the Quran's way of saying it's been tampered with. There's also this verse about the Jews when the original Bible was given to them:

2:89 And when a Book came to them from God, authenticating what is with them; while before that they were mocking those who rejected; so when what they knew came to them, they rejected it! The curse of God be upon the rejecters.


Sorry if this doesn't have all the info you want but thought maybe these were enough for you for your question. I can spend more time, getting whatever verse is asked for though the Quran has more than 6,000 verses...some of which are a paragraph long, lol, and there really isn't a very good search engine for it either. 6,000 verses...you'd think that'd be more than enough to live by. All the "authentic" hadith books make up about 3 times the content of the Quran. Almost NO MUSLIM even bothers to read them which is why they need scholars to tell them how to live pagan lives (all of this stoning, genital mutilation and kissing stones for wiping away sins is pagan bs).

-Edit- Yes also the hadith books (which is part of the Sunna; the Sunna consists of those and "traditional practices of the prophet" passed down) that are considered "sahih" (authentic) are taken to the level of the Quran. They argue that the Quran was passed down orally by the same people who passed down the hadith, therefore to reject or accept one is to do the same to the other. The Quran proves this and so much other of Sunni (mainstream) Islam creeds wrong.