Talking about circumcision with a therapist

[w.o.f.]

{deleted}

[photenman]

Just tell your therapist and get it out there. It's your life plus you're probably paying for his time and wasting time talking about other things. They are trained to be sympathetic.

If it's in America, he's likely to be circumcised. So he'd be interested in learning.

If he's intact, he'd be sympathetic (not wanting to lose what he has).

Just do it! Seriously, get it out there.

[peterpink]

A good therapist should not judge you or dismiss how a past event has effected you. You could try writing it all down. That makes it less easy to dismiss and makes it easier for you to communicate your feelings coherently. I did this for my wife and children when I was dealing with the initial stages of circumcision grief. I could not have gathered my thoughts so well in a conversation. A therapist is supposed to be trained to help you deal with what you perceive as your problems whether it be fear of spiders or open spaces, which may seem ridiculous to an outsider. You could also refer your therapist to the grief section of this site to add impetus to your grief.

[Fullcoverage]

Originally Posted by w.o.f.

I'm not worried about that. It's something that may be more or less commonplace in the USA with its near-universal circumcision trauma, but not here in Europe. I just brought that comparison to differentiate my situation from those which American guys may encounter with their therapists.

I'm sure he would sympathize. The problem is, he wouldn't know what he's talking about -- at all. I don't care for the sympathies of people who are clueless by simple virtue of being intact. It would mean nothing to me.

Also, I don't think I'm looking for advice so much as simple acknowledgment of my situation. It's all shit, wall to wall, that is all, I'm going to the mall, my dog mauls a mole.

I've run into several intact guys who really don't appreciate the fact they are not mutilated. They also do not understand the difference. There's only the few who were cut as adults or those who have restored to glans coverage who can relate. So I certainly understand about a therapist not being effective for you.

Um, instead of talking to a therapist why not just restore to the point you have glans coverage? Instead of just dealing with being a mgm victim, this is one thing in life where you can change it.

I hated and hate that I was cut. I've done something about it and the people responsible for it have failed cause I got a foreskin now.

[Fullcoverage]

Originally Posted by w.o.f.

This may seem like a trivial question to some, but imho you're hitting the bull's eye.

Why is it that some guys prefer wallowing in self-pity and continued self-victimization instead of taking control? I know I'm guilty of that. I've known about restoration since the mid-nineties, but never took action even though I knew it was the single most plausible thing to do.

Now I'm restoring, and I've come to accept it as a part of my life for the time being. But to get there took me the better part of fifteen years! And I know that there are many guys out there who share that same experience.

It sounds so fucking stupid when I type it out, but it's really that I used to prefer my victim status over taking action to improve my situation. And that cost me years.

Well, if you restore, you are not a victim and actually changed something you didn't like.

This is one of the few things in life that if you don't like, you can change. Just takes some time.

[photenman]

Two final thoughts and I'm going to step out of this thread.

There are simple steps you can take to help yourself. You're overthinking this.

#1 tell your therapist about it. If you like, take an article with you, like Sorrels on how the foreskin is the most sensitive part of the penis, or there is great info about harm in DoctorsOpposingCircumcision.org. Or get Goldman's Circumcision, The Hidden Trauma and take it in.

#2 restore.

Well that's my thinking. Just trying to help.

[swordofpeace]

I think it would be easier to talk to an intact therapist than with a mutilated one. After all, that will solve the counter-transference issues. For example if you brought your circumcised therapist knowledge and grief, which he hasn't dealt with, there is no way he will be free from becoming emotional, and he'll be at risk of becoming biased. But if you have an intact therapist, he is already healthy. Maybe he can transfer to you some of the manliness that you lost, the acceptance and dignity and understanding and compassion. that would be what I think. I would avoid any cut therapist unless they've done serious work on this issue. Even then I think I would prefer the intact. And I think you should stop procrastinating and talk about it with him

I get some of my ideas from studying the work of Joseph Nicolosi. I don't know why I'm into that because I'm not gay but he treats people who have same sex attraction but don't want it and he wrote a book called 'shame and attachment loss' in which I learned so much about psychology and trauma and grief work and self-states and family dynamics and healthy therapist-client relationship and on being a man. Basically these guys feel like lesser men, something was 'cut off' from them or not given to them. Only a healthy therapist or male ego (in our case an intact man) can give to us psychologically what we lost. Only an intact man can "see" us in our shame and grief and validate us, I think. That's why I'm excited for Germany. This is what I think. I know he can't give us our skin back but then again that's not why you are going there. You might check out that book- it is very good even if you disagree with the premise. It is about shame and grief and being connected to a father figure in the therapist, whose goal is to eventually make himself unnecessary and help have healthy friendships with straight (intact) people. It's very much about connecting to your wounded child or self, through the affects in your body that exist in the present- always starting with the present. And then going deeper, and this enables memories to surface. And then having a salient man witness your grief and loss and affirm you is nice or you can witness to yourself. I try to do all of this without a therapist. It's the basis of my whole grief and healing system, though we have so much deep grief and loss that will likely continue until we die

[mark85]

Well, not all therapists are great fits, but if you trust him in all other respects, then I think you should just trust that he knows how to empathize without being able to personally relate. Therapists have to be ready to deal with a wide range of issues, they know this and they're trained to be (or at least supposed to be) ready for it. They wouldn't be very useful if they had to be able to personally relate to every problem their client has, would they?

Yes, it's possible it may not work out, but what is the point of the work you've done with him if you're leaving out such an important part of you? It's best to get it out, and explain to him why you were so reluctant to talk about it with him. If he's any good at his job, he'll be trying to understand you and see things from your pov, he won't judge you and look at you weird. If he does, then good, you know he's terrible at his job and you should be seeing someone else, even though I understand that might be hard to accept if you've done a lot of work so far.

I mentioned circumcision as a problem when I met my therapist for the first time, and based on her reaction, she probably didn't have much (if any) experience with someone like me. After talking about it more and more, she has learned more about what it is and how it hurts me, and she's totally sympathetic in as far as I can tell. She's an American and about 30 years old, I doubt she has kids, but she could have brothers and male friends that are circumcised, and if she's straight, her partners have probably been circumcised. My point is, she probably has incentives to want to think that circumcision isn't bad and yet she's empathized with me because that's what she's trained to do.

[airpud]

grey, not black or white

i think restorers (= reconstructers) are still victimns - just less so than non-"restorers"

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why did i wait so long to restore? because i didnt know how. and other stuff takes over your life. get sidetracked. put it into the back of your mind.

i tried sth similar to t-tape 25 years ago because the sulcus was rubbing. for years i didnt think anything could be done.

but the lid is off now. the internet is here and it's in wide use.

[Fullcoverage]

Originally Posted by w.o.f.

Well, I'll tell him tomorrow.

I think the reason I've put it off until now may also be that telling another person that I'm circumcised makes me less of a man in their eyes.

Until they know, they just assume I'm intact like them. And so I feel a bit more like an intact guy, if that makes any sense.

You see, Germany is a horrible place, too. Many guys will instantly treat you as inferior as soon as they learn that you are circumcised. I've been hazed throughout my school years, for having been mutilated. Being called a "filthy Jew pig" is just the perfect start into the day for a twelve-year old. The breakfast of champions. Everyday a new adventure, with wonderful things to learn and discover. Believe me, growing up mutilated in Germany was a horrible, horrible experience I wouldn't wish on my worst enemies.

I certainly understand your treatment being cut in central Europe. This is what motivated me to start restoring. I visited family in central Europe and became very conscious of being a mgm victim. It really is not socially cool in that part of the world to be cut. This applies to all countries not just Germany. Um, however when I got coverage, the lights came on so to speak and the game has now changed.

So I did something about the fact I was a mgm victim. And I don't look cut nor does it act cut anymore. So screw the idiots, butchers(doctors) and imbeciles pushing the circ bandwagon. They are all pushing a pack of lies. They lost and I changed it. That's probably the most beneficial psychological benefit of restoration. There's very few things anyone can do to alter their body so dramatically in spite of being branded. Talk about empowerment and uplifting.

If you restore to the point where you have a foreskin, you are not a victim anymore. It's about the most empowering thing you can do. About the only thing a therapist might help with is post traumatic stress from going through the crap you caught growing up. Then again just start using your foreskin and enjoy yourself and forget about all that crap you put up with.