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Old May 27th, 2010
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Default Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

Saw this blog a couple of years back. Shows things are not as rosy in Europe as some Americans think:
http://denisbider.blogspot.com/2006/...lt-part-1.html

Circumcision as an adult, part 1
I wish to write a personal account of my recent circumcision because I had been looking for similar information when I was in the process of deciding whether or not to have it done, and while I did find a limited number of personal accounts, I would have appreciated more and from different angles. To uninterested observers, the things I'm going to write may seem like a lot of detail about something minor, but it may not seem as unimportant to some. It is these I write for.

Among the predominantly Catholic/agnostic/atheist population in Slovenia, circumcision is usually not performed at birth. If performed, this is usually done in childhood or teenage years due to a significant medical reason - in particular if the foreskin is too narrow to reveal the glans penis completely, making hygiene difficult and sexual performance painful.

I will soon be 26 and I had no such pressing medical cause. My penis performed well, was well-shaped and good-looking. My girlfriend did observe that I had comparably more foreskin than her other lovers, and I found this to be an annoyance during sex because it could decrease friction and pleasure for both when I wasn't 100% erect.

But the primary reason in favor of my circumcision was a series of what looked like yeast infections: red spots that would take a long time (several weeks) to develop. If promptly, properly and continuously treated with clotrimazolum, they would take an equally long time to go away. (Clotrimazolum is the active ingredient in an over-the-counter, non-prescription anti-yeast cream available in Slovene pharmacies as Canesten.) If left untreated, the red spots would gradually cover the penis and begin to itch painfully, requiring a prescription antibiotic cream to go away. Despite my attempts at proper hygiene, these incidents would repeat several times over a number of years, and my understanding was that my attempts at fixing this were largely foiled by the damp environment provided by my foreskin. In its plenty nooks and crannies, the yeast would find a moist and anaerobic place where it could hide until the conditions were once again in its favor so it could proliferate. I therefore concluded that the only way to tackle this problem permanently would be by removing the foreskin.

There are two ways to have a medical procedure in Slovenia: to pay or not to pay. The national medical insurance scheme will cover the cost of a procedure if doctors decide that it is necessary by prescribing it. I could probably get a doctor to prescribe the procedure and get it done for free. However, the waiting period at the Ljubljana Clinical Center is some 18 months; also, when I last underwent treatment there, I wasn't too enthused about the nurses' attitudes and the experience. So I picked the only institution in Ljubljana I was told of where the waiting period is short and that performs circumcision privately - the Rozna Dolina Surgical Sanatorium.

I soon found out that these circumcisions were being prescribed and performed all by exactly one and the same doctor who is in some sort of business relationship with the Sanatorium. It is an old geezer called dr. prim. Marko Stanonik dr. med., and he turns out to be a traditionalist, authoritarian Catholic fellow who converses with an air of arrogance and judgementalism. During my initial examination appointment with him, he was visibly skeptical and sarcastic of modern phenomena such as this thing called internet where I learned various facts about circumcision about which I wanted to talk to him. I was expecting to get some reassurance and objective medical opinion, but none was forthcoming. The guy appears to have an underlying belief that no kind of informedness is possible, or even desirable, on behalf of a patient - even if one is undergoing surgery. He gave me a cover diagnosis of phimosis - a condition I don't have where the foreskin is too narrow to retract over the glans penis - and told me I will be contacted by the Surgical Sanatorium.

I almost balked out of the operation when I learned from the Surgical Sanatorium that the same doctor who performed the pre-op examination would also be doing surgery on me. I disliked the guy for his patronizing judgemental traditionalist attitudes and his failure to help me with making up my mind about whether circumcision or something else would be a good idea for me. After some contemplation, though, I decided that his ability to communicate isn't the most important aspect of a surgeon, and that he may do a good job regardless of how bad at public relations he might be. (My main support for this is research I read about which found that, how much a doctor gets sued, is unrelated to how good he is as a doctor, but instead is related to the tone of voice and quality of communication he uses towards his patients; so good doctors who communicate poorly get sued for other people's errors, and bad doctors who communicate well don't get sued even for what were clearly their errors.)

Almost two months after my initial examination, the date of the operation arrived and I decided to go ahead with it, but with some hesitation. The morning of the operation, I shaved my pubic area as instructed and appeared at the Sanatorium some 30 minutes late. I paid for the operation, which cost EUR 334 (the USD equivalent shifts continously). After another 30 minutes of waiting, I was taken in by a kind nurse and asked to strip and change into a revealing hospital garment, slippers and a hairnet. After changing, I was led into the operation room where I laid down on the table. A nurse prepared me by shaving a spot on my thigh and sticking to it a palm-sized electrode. I waited for a few minutes covered in the green paper-like sheets they use during operations. I was told several times to relax, but the requests seemed pointless; I was definitely anxious. At this time I was wondering why I got myself there and was despairing over the fate of my penis and foreskin, which hadn't caused me any trouble recently and which I rather liked when it wasn't causing me red spots and things. However, by this point I would really have needed a very good reason to leave. So I waited, anxiously.

Dr. Stanonik arrived and they started working immediately. A nurse exposed my pubic area and hung the green covering over me in such a way that I couldn't see what was happening. The surgeon started talking to me about my work and at the same time started working on me; it felt like a diversion to make me not think about what was happening simultaneously. I felt an injection of anaesthetic in three spots at the base of my penis. I didn't feel much for most of the remainder of the operation, except for what felt like removal of part of the foreskin, which hurt like hell! It seems that the anaesthetic didn't take well on the left side of the penis, because I generally felt more on that side, including this pain, but I didn't feel anything elsewhere. During the operation, the surgeon generally joked and refrained from giving me any accurate and meaningful information when I asked for it. The nurses were kinder and responded more factually. The whole thing, from first prick to completion, took some 30 minutes. When it was over, they had packed my penis into a roll of gauze, which I received instructions to remove the next day. I asked the surgeon what sort of painkillers would be necessary, and he said that generally they're not. I thought "Yeah, right" to that.

After the operation, I immediately reported a gradually increasing pain which I felt was going to get worse by the minute as the anaesthetic wears off. I requested painkillers but was told that I would get them later when I get into the waiting room, and that I should sit down a bit first. I needed to sit down because I had vertigo, but I knew I'll also desperately need the painkillers, so I pretended to be fine and dressed and went into the waiting room. They asked me to stay there for another 45 minutes - sitting upright, fully clothed, among other patients - to make sure that everything is OK. I got a single 75mg pill of diclofenacum (Naklofen), but it was too little, too late: in the waiting room, my penis started hurting like hell while I was squirming and gritting teeth; nobody paid me attention except the other patients who simply preferred not to sit very close to me. After some 45 minutes, another nurse called me in to check my bandages; it was OK, and after I asked her, she did get me three more diclofenacum pills to last me through the day. It hurt like hell driving home, and when I got home it hurt for another hour or more until both the diclofenacum pills finally started working. I stayed on the couch and didn't move much for the rest of the day, and the pain was OK.

In the evening I had to remove the bandages when they were soaked with urine after peeing, and I found my penis in a sorry state indeed; the glans was nearly hidden in the swollen tissue around it. I went to bed with another, final pill of diclofenacum.

I was told before and after the operation that I should avoid erections and physical activity until the wound heals. This was easy enough during the day, but I was wondering how I'm going to achieve it during the night, because at that time erections are subconscious - and are in fact necessary for keeping the penis healthy. (Smokers have much weaker night-time erections and significantly more erectile dysfunction.) And indeed, the penis wouldn't listen to the surgeon, and I got several erections during the night, including a wet dream! Fortunately, no trouble seems to have come from it, and at this time (the second day) the penis appears to be healing normally. Meanwhile, I heard an encouraging report from a female friend about her colleague's improved sexual experience after circumcision. Consequently, me and my girlfriend can't wait for the wound to fully heal in order to try the newly shaped penis in practice.
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  #2  
Old May 27th, 2010
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

2006-06-01
Circumcision as an adult, part 2
I just returned from my post-operative examination with dr. Stanonik. A few notes in addition to what I wrote before:

* There are multiple circumcision styles, in particular tight (takes away more skin) vs. loose (leaves more skin), and high (cuts more regular skin, putting the scar line away from the glans) vs. low (cuts more foreskin, putting the scar line closer to the glans). Before the operation, I tried talking to dr. Stanonik about what kind of circumcision I'd get, but he didn't budge - he just said 'We're going to cut as much skin as is necessary to reveal the glans', and that was it. He didn't offer a choice, or a choice combined with a recommendation.

* There are multiple ways to do a circumcision - with different possibilities of tools, or freehand. Some of the tools which can be used allow the cut line to be determined precisely before actually cutting. Dr. Stanonik operates freehand, and as a result, my circumcision is lopsided - the cut line is much closer to the glans on the left side than on the right side of the penis. When I asked him about this, his response was that he could do it differently, but then he could chop off part of the glans as well. This is a poor excuse - there are good tools which protect the glans penis and which would have provided a straighter and more predictable cut.

* One other thing I didn't get a choice about is whether or not to remove the frenulum (the piece of skin under the glans that connects the glans to the shaft of the penis along the straight line under the shaft). The doctor simply informed me that he is removing it, and joked about how I should have already done the job myself through masturbation and how they're going to charge me extra for it (they didn't). I think I will like the penis without the frenulum better, but there are surgeons who give you a choice as to whether or not to remove it.

* The swelling after the operation took longer to subside than I expected. I was expecting it would go away in 2-3 days, but it took 6 or so before substantial swelling actually started to go away. Applying ice packs at that point may have helped - or it may have been coincidental. The doctor expressed no worry over the swelling, though; it appears this is reasonably normal.

* After the operation, there is now a spot of what looks like hard tissue, on the upper side of the shaft, and about the size of a pea. The doctor explains that this is because they had to tie a blood vessel during the operation, and that it will go away.

Overall, the penis appears to be healing well; it is very frustrating not to be able to use it. It will take another week or so for the stitches and the little crust at the frenulum to fall away. I hope there will be no complications, and if so, when it heals completely, I'll make a final report of how the sensations have changed, or remained the same.
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Old May 27th, 2010
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

Circumcision as an adult, part 3
In my previous posts about being circumcised (part 1 and part 2) I described my actual circumcision and the first days of healing.

Six weeks later, now that I have had some new sexual experience, I think I can say quite safely that the sensations are way better. Previously, my sensations on penetration were limited to the glans penis and immediately below it when inserting the penis, and very little sensation at all when retracting it. This is because the foreskin would attach itself to the walls of the vagina, where it would mostly stand still - the so called gliding action. Regardless of what it says in the linked Wikipedia article, this gliding action sucked. I have a pretty average width penis, perhaps even a bit below average. Therefore, if the woman had a normal-sized pussy, because of the gliding action, I would feel very little sensation when penetrating, and almost no sensation when using a condom. Because of the lack of sensation, it could be difficult to maintain a hard erection - that is, unless the woman had a very tight pussy; or had very strong vaginal muscles she would exercise; or I was very aroused to begin with.

Now, without the foreskin, the sensations are so much better. My first surprise when inserting the penis was that, with a condom, I didn't feel as much on the head of the penis as I used to. The glans had become desensitized because of constant exposure, so now there is less sensation on the glans, even less with a condom. However, because there is no gliding action, I now feel so much more along the whole shaft of the penis that the sex is just awesome. It used to be that, because of the lack of sensation, I could have not-very-interesting sex for a long time without coming until I became limp from exhaustion. This is no more: now, I can actually feel the vagina along the whole shaft, and this is such a turn on that high arousal and a climax are unavoidable. I can now feel a normal pussy very well, and a tight pussy (which earlier I needed to feel anything much at all!) is now a mind-boggling mix of sensation that leads to a vulcanic climax.

Amazingly, even though the sex is shorter because I'm so much more aroused, my girlfriend says she can feel me so much better and also enjoys sex much more than before!

The change in sensation is undeniable. However, I imagine that some of the extra arousal is also temporary because I've had sex infrequently since the operation, so as not to hinder the healing; and that part of it is because I do not climax alone any more. My earlier techniques now don't work any longer; they are arousing, but they do not take me to an orgasm. And I don't even want to learn masturbation again: I find that my attitude towards sex is more pure, my desire is greater, and my experience is better if I am unable to take care of the tension myself.

In summary:

* If you want a circumcision for any reason; especially if you feel that gliding action due to the foreskin is depriving you of pleasure; then do it. I can testify that, without the foreskin causing the gliding action, the experience is so much better. Previously, when I penetrated into a vagina, my thought every time was: "Why does this feel so bland? Shouldn't this feel much more intensive?" Now, my thought is: "God this feels good!"

So - pick the one you prefer.

* With regard to the aesthetics of the operation, you might be much better off going to an aesthetic surgeon than going to a urologist. If I did this again, I wouldn't go to a urologist because, now, my circumcision is seriously lopsided: there's more skin on the right than on the left side. It doesn't bother me functionality, but it's just not as pretty as it could be. I think an aesthetic surgeon would likely have done this better, and I still hold a grudge towards the urologist who operated on me (dr. prim. Marko Stanonik) for failing to do it nicely and symmetrically.

Still, I am more satisfied with my circumcision than I was without it!
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Old May 27th, 2010
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

There are lots of points that can be made about this. The most worrying one is the way in which private medicine is also resulting in European guys being needlessly circumcised.

I read between the lines and don't think this guy is so happy being circumcised as he says. I notice he hasn't posted about circumcision except in the recent post-operation period.

I did email him and he complained about sensitivity and says that in order to have sufficient pleasure in intercourse he no longer masturbates.
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Old May 27th, 2010
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

Quote:
Originally Posted by likes View Post
in order to have sufficient pleasure in intercourse he no longer masturbates.
I hear this over and over, and I'm amazed that men are complacently accepting of the notion that their genitals can't be enjoyed daily. They just need to restore.
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Old May 27th, 2010
RestoreMeASAP RestoreMeASAP is offline
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

It's great that you had a choice and were able to make a decision as an adult.

Now come back to us after 10-20 years when your glans is completely desensitized after being continuously exposed and let us know if you are still satisfied with the sensations.

Since I was cut as an infant, 30years+ of exposure has been very detrimental.

Didn't the doctor offer steroidal cream for the phimosis?
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Old May 27th, 2010
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OracleYori OracleYori is offline
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

Quote:
Originally Posted by RestoreMeASAP View Post

Didn't the doctor offer steroidal cream for the phimosis?
It said that was a cover story.

And I'm disturbed at the responses to the article on the original... one guy references circ / list and as something that eased his mind after having it done...
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Old May 27th, 2010
Aspie Aspie is offline
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

This guy gives lots of mixed signals, first he says oh yeah cuts the best but then he turns back around and implies its the worst thing in the world its as if he's mourning his foreskin and trying to justify what he did to himself.
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Old May 28th, 2010
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

It's called trying to convince yourself...

See, with men who were circumcised in infancy, they really can't miss what they've never had. You'll get a hodgepodge of experiences, because, as stated, there are all kinds of circumcisions, each having different results. (IE, more/less mucosa, the scar being higher up close to the glans, away from the glans etc...)

You were lucky to be left with enough skin/mucosa, the right balance, I can't see why you would complain. I can see a guy start to complain that he is gradually losing his sensitivity, if he is missing a whole lot of mucosa or what not... also some guys may keratinize more than others.

In one porn I saw, I saw a guy who was cut so close to the glans, he practically had no mucosa. You could see that the skin on his shaft went from the base all the way up to the sulcus of the glans. And you could see the guy trying real hard to get a sensation. Like, he would try fucking the girl, but then he would withdraw and furiously jack himself before putting it back in. I just could NOT enjoy that porn. Some cut guys look totally in control, this guy... I just felt real sorry for him.

Anyway, back to my point, this guy's only convincing himself and you could tell. It's only obvious because we know that as he was cut as an adult, he knows BOTH experiences. He has a consciousness of what he felt before, and what he feels now. And I can read between the lines too... one minute he's raving, the other minute he's kind of lamenting, with which he makes up for by finding some redeeming point. It's not like he can reverse what he did. (Well, he'd have to restore but that takes time, effort, and it's no real guarantee that he'll get the same sensations he had back...)

So yeah. Sounds like the guy needed to have found a better doctor for his infections. Maybe he was cleaning a little bit too much under there? As for me, I've got a bit of overhang. Never had an infection in my life. I feel kinda sorry for this guy...

But hey. This is what he wanted and he made a choice right?
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Old July 2nd, 2011
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Default Re: Slovenian Experience of Circumcision

David said...

Thanks for the post. I too was circumcised as an adult. Fortunately I found lots of info on circfetish and also a good doctor there. He circucmised me good and tight, and as everyone here has said, sex is very much improved without the long sliding foreskin. I also had very little pain after the surgery, so consider myself lucky. Best to do all boys sometime before puberty, I think.
21 January, 2008 18:11

Obvious circumfetishist.
Funny to read about these guys badmouthing the gliding action.
Obviously they don't know what it does for them.
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