Question about Alexithymia and Circumcised Men

[Manny]

Hello,

For those who have read about the Alexithymia condition and its possible relation with circumcision. What do you think about that?

I've read the studies (here in this website are the studies available in PDF format) and it's not very clear at least for me that this Alexithymia condition prevails or has more incidence in men circumcised as infants with no anesthesia that provokes them a specific alteration in the brain regarding the emotional system and/or this condition can also be acquired by men circumcised later in life like in young boys, teenagers and adults. Is this condition exclusive for the first case or is it for both?

In my case I was circumcised at age 13. And I don't want to mix different things that can alter my judgement with this that I'm asking, so I'll explain. In short, I went through severe (and I do really mean severe family problems resulting in my father's death that affected me very deeply when I was 15yo) family problems since the age of 9 or 10yo until the age of 19 or 20yo when they finally came to an end. Throughout that time I turned very violent and aggresive getting many times into physical and verbal fights and got into drinking. Before I was circumcised I had already discovered masturbation and of course it was very pleasant. After the surgery I never experienced masturbation and the sensations in the same way ever again as before, now it was frustrating not to feel like before and, maybe, unconsciously I increased my level of anger and violence because of that. And of course having natural sex having a foreskin was a thing I never knew about and how it felt. I can only imagine the feelings and sensations that intact men describe as full body orgasms experiences. I don't feel that, but I'm trying to do so by concentrating on the pleasurable sensations trying to mentally enhance them. Maybe it's a naive thought because I know that the nerve endings of the foreskin and the frenulum are all gone, but I believe that the mind is powerful. Maybe I'm crazy and stupid to think that I can do that but I can't lose hope, right? I want to be naively positive .

So, I would like to separate those two things so I can see if one thing has to do or not with the Alexithymia condition.

After my family problems were over my level of anger and violence and drinking problems decreased significantly, but when it came to sex and due to the lack of sensitivity/feeling I got somewhat frustrated and thinking most of the time that something was wrong. And many times the rage inside me just popped out with no apparent reason that even my friends and family said I was crazy to react that way for no reason. I reacted by yelling and hitting upon the table, the wall, by throwing and breaking things and by confronting people.

Eventually, after I investigated about circumcision and all the physical and psychological damage that produces in various degress I started a personal healing process in which I adopted a more spiritual view about life in general and about the circumcision thing that affected me for a long time. And today I can say I'm OK with that. But sometimes, this rage thing just comes out with no reason at all in normal situations and sometimes I feel bad when I react that way and sometimes I don't care at all. Of course, this rage thing is pretty easy to come out when let's say for instance I'm driving and some idiot doesn't put their turn signal on.

I'm pretty sure and conscious/aware that I don't present such condition because in my everyday life I think I'm aware of my emotions, but, and just for fun, I took 2 Alexithymia on-line tests and it turned out that I failed them both and by its results I do present such condition with a high margin of percentage. I don't want to get ideas into my head and think that I probably may present some degree of this condition, because untill I don't have a proper diagnose I can't trust those tests. Has anyone done these on-line tests? Could these results be due to the circumcision-alexithymia relation or I'm just a neurotic person due to my family problems back then that needs to go Neurotics Anonymous for help?

Thank you for your time.

[asdfjklmeh1]

Until more research into the matter is done, I cannot tell you anything about Alexithymia condition in relation to circumcision without anesthetic at an age beyond infancy. I sincerely hope that they did use anesthetic during your procedure. If not, this could be basis for legal action against medical battery/malpractice/negligence, but I don't know if that would be so easy now, so many years after the fact . If it did happen to you without anesthetic, either local or general, there could have possibly been the same neurological changes, like those described during the fMRI results in brain functions/pattern studies such done on infants, but without a before and after reading, we can't really know.

To this end, I cannot tell you anything more about fMRIs, Alexithymia, because I simply do not know what more to say in this regard.

Related reading:
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/mri-s...y-altered.html

Science aside, I can tell you that psychiatric self-diagnosis can be very dangerous.

Eventually, after I investigated about circumcision and all the physical and psychological damage that produces in various degress I started a personal healing process in which I adopted a more spiritual view about life in general and about the circumcision thing that affected me for a long time. And today I can say I'm OK with that.

It is good that you have come to better terms to what happened back then...

But sometimes, this rage thing just comes out with no reason at all in normal situations and sometimes I feel bad when I react that way and sometimes I don't care at all.

...but this part does raise some concern. I am not a psychiatrist, nor am I a trained counselor. I am just a college student studying medicine who has gone through the same process of self-discovery upon learning that my circumcision was botched, and that the source of my physical pain at every erection was iatrogenic in nature.

This is what I can tell you:

I have the same surges of emotion--they can be rage, they can be remorse, they can be resent, they can be anything. For a while, I felt inconsolable, and was unable to really focus on anything.

Thus far, I have managed to transmute my personal angst into a force that positively affects others--I speak out to others about this travesty that goes on, and I seek to protect others from needless suffering like yours or mine through the sharing of this information. Since becoming more active in this sense, the inner emotional turmoil has subsided a great deal for me.

I sense that your entry into this board may be a positive thing for you, as are your efforts to educate others in such matters as cited in another entry in this board.

http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/...ad.php?p=69887

The urologist you mentioned has clearly made his stance known that he will not be moved easily into changing his mind. In this sense, he is another person like Br ian Mo r is. It is nearly impossible to argue with irrational people like him or your urologist acquaintance without becoming frustrated, because they are so immutable.

The best thing I think you can do is to turn instead to spreading the truth to others, and draw satisfaction from the fact that you are making a difference to someone, somewhere.

Every one of us is like an eye-dropper dripping concentrated truth into a vast pool of lies and dishonesty--our influence alone might seem small, but I promise you that people can and are changing.

In stead of seeking out Neurotics Anonymous, I think it would be better for you to first seek one-on-one counseling if you so choose to seek out support on this. Others might not understand where you are coming from, and I don't know how this may play out in a group dynamic. A good counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist can understand. They have their jobs because they genuinely want to help other people, and if you are in pain, they will be sympathetic, and not belittle your concerns.

Be well, Manny, and know that you are not alone.

[Manny]

Originally Posted by asdfjklmeh1

Until more research into the matter is done, I cannot tell you anything about Alexithymia condition in relation to circumcision without anesthetic at an age beyond infancy. I sincerely hope that they did use anesthetic during your procedure. Oh, yes! They did use anesthesia. Perhaps I didn't explain myself well. They used general anesthesia. But I can tell you this and I'm not lying. When I was just starting to fall asleep by the effects of the anesthesia I felt the doctor manipulating my penis and suddenly for 3 or 4 seconds I felt how something or a cutting instrument or device started to cut part of my foreskin. It was a horrible sensation. I felted like I wanted to move and scream and tell them to stop but I couldn't. I felt like an electric shock went through my head and after those seconds I fell completely asleep. I felt, I think, this same electric shock run through my head the day they gave me the bad news when my father died.

If not, this could be basis for legal action against medical battery/malpractice/negligence, but I don't know if that would be so easy now, so many years after the fact . Thank you for the advice. I never thought it that way. And yes you're right, so many years after that (20 years have past). I wouldn't consider doing it if it were even posible today. But I could imagine that if a legal action was posible in a hypothetical situation, maybe I would consider to sue on the fact that they never offer me treatment when they could have done instead of operating right away, he, he.

If it did happen to you without anesthetic, either local or general, there could have possibly been the same neurological changes, like those described during the fMRI results in brain functions/pattern studies such done on infants, but without a before and after reading, we can't really know. Well, I felt that "electric shock" run through my head. That probably could have affected or probably not. I hope not. I don't think so.

To this end, I cannot tell you anything more about fMRIs, Alexithymia, because I simply do not know what more to say in this regard. Oh, don't worry. You have helped me a lot just by reading my posts and by me being able to express this what I feel and think.

Related reading:
http://www.drmomma.org/2009/10/mri-s...y-altered.html
Oh, man. Poor baby.

Science aside, I can tell you that psychiatric self-diagnosis can be very dangerous. What do you mean?? Well, it was just an on-line tests that anybody can take and although I failed those tests I don't predisposition myself to think that I really have some degree of Alexithymia. I don't believe I really have some Alexithymia condition, no, of course not.

It is good that you have come to better terms to what happened back then... Yeah, that's life...

...but this part does raise some concern. I am not a psychiatrist, nor am I a trained counselor. I am just a college student studying medicine who has gone through the same process of self-discovery upon learning that my circumcision was botched, and that the source of my physical pain at every erection was iatrogenic in nature. I'm very sorry to hear that. I empathize with you morally.

This is what I can tell you:

I have the same surges of emotion--they can be rage, they can be remorse, they can be resent, they can be anything. For a while, I felt inconsolable, and was unable to really focus on anything.

Thus far, I have managed to transmute my personal angst into a force that positively affects others--I speak out to others about this travesty that goes on, and I seek to protect others from needless suffering like yours or mine through the sharing of this information. Since becoming more active in this sense, the inner emotional turmoil has subsided a great deal for me. Yes, sometimes I feel rage. Remorse I don't feel. Why would I feel remorse? I didn't do anything wrong. Resentment, yes, I feel resentment towards the medical community, particulary towards urologists. They think and act like if they were the messiahs that medicine was waiting for. And as you say, I have managed to in some way give it a positive change too in order to help others. I like to help.

I sense that your entry into this board may be a positive thing for you, as are your efforts to educate others in such matters as cited in another entry in this board. Yes, I really do hope so.

http://www.foreskin-restoration.net/...ad.php?p=69887

The urologist you mentioned has clearly made his stance known that he will not be moved easily into changing his mind. In this sense, he is another person like Br ian Mo r is. It is nearly impossible to argue with irrational people like him or your urologist acquaintance without becoming frustrated, because they are so immutable. Fuc* them! Say it as it is: Br an Mor is (you're right, done) is a fuc.... circumcision fetichist and spreads FALSE INFORMATION about the supposedly benefits of circumcision. It's very well known that Mor is is member of some or all of the circumcision fetish websites. He is mentally fuc.... sick! Visit CircLeaks. And he can burn in HELL FOREVER. I'm sorry to say this but maybe it's my Latin temperament that makes me so angry.

The best thing I think you can do is to turn instead to spreading the truth to others, and draw satisfaction from the fact that you are making a difference to someone, somewhere. Yes, that's what I'm doing and intend to do whenever I can.

Every one of us is like an eye-dropper dripping concentrated truth into a vast pool of lies and dishonesty--our influence alone might seem small, but I promise you that people can and are changing. Yes, eventually people will see the truth and enlightend themselves with true knowledge. Like Gandhi said: "Even if you are a minority of one, the truth is the truth".

In stead of seeking out Neurotics Anonymous, I think it would be better for you to first seek one-on-one counseling if you so choose to seek out support on this. Thank you for the advice. Others might not understand where you are coming from, and I don't know how this may play out in a group dynamic. A good counselor/psychologist/psychiatrist can understand. They have their jobs because they genuinely want to help other people, and if you are in pain, they will be sympathetic, and not belittle your concerns.

Be well, Manny, and know that you are not alone. Thank you for your time little brother and be well too!!

Thank you for your concern and time.

[asdfjklmeh1]

I spelled the name wrong so that searching the names on Google would not make this thread visible if one were to search for him.

[Manny]

Originally Posted by asdfjklmeh1

I spelled the name wrong so that searching the names on Google would not make this thread visible if one were to search for him.

All right, got it. Done.